Buffalo, NY .. US or Canadian side?

[Dan Herrmann]

Steve,
Make sure you bring your passport with you to cross back into the USA.

You can also use an original birth certificate with photo ID, but the passport will make your inspection a lot easier.

If you want to go to/from Canada, check out the Queenstown/Lewiston bridge at the north end of I-190.  The rainbow bridge in Niagara Falls should be OK now that school is back in session, plus I don't think that bridge handles truck traffic (I could be wrong).

The Peace Bridge from Buffalo to Fort Erie traditionally has had the longest waits.

Have fun, and let us know what you ended up doing!

[Evan_Smith]

I'd be wary of using the Queenston/Lewiston bridge.  Earlier in the summer they had a report that this border crossing continually had the longest lines.  It really depends on what time you cross the border.  Morning and evening rush hours are busy at the border too.  You don't NEED a passport to get into the states at land border crossings, but I agree, it can't hurt.  I hope you end up playing Whirlpool, because I want to hear your comments.  If the course were on the US side, I would chance a long wait at the border to play.  No second thoughts about it.  

Doug-RTJ worked for Thompson, perhaps that's where the confusion set in.

[Evan_Smith]

Here are some photos of Whirlpool from last spring.

The approach to the 1st


The approach to the par 5, 5th


Approach to the great 8th.  Slightly downhill, dogleg right 440 yd par 4 with the approach to an elevated green.  It doesn't look like much from the photo, but it's a great hole in person.


Approach to the 13th.  A great dogleg left par 5.  Great strategic tee shot.


Another great par 5.  The 15th.  The green is raised at the front adding to the difficulty when trying to get home in two.


Par 4, 16th from the back tee.  Some tree trimming would help with the view.


Par 3, 17th.  It plays 230 from the back, and when it's into the wind it's even more of a beast.  Can anybody get me a chainsaw to trim those trees!!!!!


The approach from about 150 yards to the par 5, 18th.  More tree trimming needed!!!  Don't worry, the course is not overgrown.  It's just the photos I selected.

[Joe Bausch]

Steve,

The Rees Jones course at Grand Niagara is decent, but nothing to write home about. Plans are in the works to expand this facility to 36-holes with the addition of a golf course designed by Greg Norman.

In addition to the 36-hole complex that Doug mentioned, John Daly opened a course nearby called Thundering Rapids.

TK

I played at Thundering Waters last summer.  I had been playing well up till then so I decided to try the black tees at +6700 yds (the Daly tees are +7200).  Boy, that was a mistake.  TW is very difficult, with a slope of 145 from the black tees.  After nine holes I swallowed my pride and moved up two sets of tees.  

[Ian Andrew]

Whirlpool is definately a Stanley Thompson course and that's well documented. RTJ and he had long parted ways at this point. He even had his brother Nichol as the opening professional for the course and his cousin was the first golf superintendent too. The work was never on the lines of Banff or Jasper, in fact much of the work during this period was suprisingly restrained (but that might have been because of limited money in post war Canada).

The routing is still there although the bunkers have all been redone.

[Dan Herrmann]

If you play Whirlpool, try this local treat.

We always used to cross the street that's next to 18 tee.  If I recall, that puts you right up on top of the gorge across from the USA.  Tee one up and see how far you can hit it with your driver.   The ball always seemed to be in the air forever.

[Steve Lang]

 

Just printed boarding passes; joined last min golfer.com;

Dan, I believe there may be some surlyn flying there on Sunday.. will swing like Daily.. he almost made it

[Steve Lang]

 

decisions in..

as far as enjoying/viewing the falls.. canadian side by a long shot, no contest.. period

jet boat ride upriver to, thru, getting wet, do it again, and again rapids shooting and fooling around in the whirlpool, the folks at ontario-on-the-lake docks, nice having 1500 hp behind you and your closest 30 friends for an hour!

salvatores garden hotel & restaurant.. italian weird extravagant, quirky.. great shower pressure, very poor drainage considerations.. great rubber figures- you expect them to wink at you.. restaurant surf & turf good, on whole.. package ok if someone else pays for it!  

olympic at sheridan & military rd.. good gyro & soouvlaki for lunch

max's grille by airport on genesee, great beer selection, all you can eat ribs after 4 pm on sat looked fantastic.. beef on ulttlemein"weck" (sp).. curiously interesting on the pallet between the beef gravy/aujuis & horseradish used..

carmen's on transit, for low key italian.. good enough stuff

oh, yeh golf..

saturday pm.. beautiful sunshine and slow play at Sheridan Park (3PM-7:30) .. definitely very casual.. we enjoyed majority of holes on course, being first time adventurers.. starter help with some local knowledge was good kick-off (local 17yr old kid recently shot a 63 in competition there), #1, 2 setting tone.. 3-8 fairly flat bland, loved working downhill left corner on #9, great green setting.. good set up for back 9's greens and shotmaking needs.  Good use of creek for shot carries and hill-tops-sides for green complexes.  #18 looked extremely tight with left hillside crest tree line and really wasn't that bad, but i backed down to my spoon off the tee..  great risk reward if match was on line there

(ps.. we drove cart to that hot dog stand! no need for sneaking through fence anymore..)

(pss.. my work was at Praxair, the old Union-Carbide Linde site on monday.. I asked them about taking golf course property.. no one knew, but there's some pics available showing history from Manhatan project days..)  I probably can get story from them..

sunday.. over peace bridge, got onto nexus lane.. what's that?? they let us in anyway.. without charge.. shaking canadian head was funny..

rain.. bummer, but we went undeterred first to Hunter's Point (Lockness Links) and no-problem, rode the cart path.. Sheila in her rainsuit, me in a garbage bag rainshirt.. would definitely return there.. saw 4 groups playing in misting/light rain conditions.  Seemed fairly similar to Magnolia Creek (League City, Tx south of Houston with same theme) but with more topo challenge

got lost for a while, west of welland canal, righted the ship and headed for Falls.. and Whirlpool

saw better opportunity for hitting over river down river from #18 tee area.. yes the ball flies nicely forever, in fact all four went nicely..

Still raining so when given lemons, make margaritas.. go jet boating where they guarantee (rightly so) you'll get drenched on way up river.. much fun.. grab some fresh fruit along parkway - great grapes area! but no time for wineries this time

soaking wet, mini-change, go to Whirlpool Proshop.. counter guy at first wouldn't let us tour.. never asked before.. cart guy rolled his eyes in disbelief over counter guy stance.. checked greens fees, how about monday, kept up pressure, looked at clothes, ms sheila up'd pressure, how about tues.. hrrumfff .. yes, of course we'll stay on cart paths.. bingo..

Stanley Thompson used limited hilly property very well, really liked many of the gently sloped holes, par 3's definitely strongest point of course.. yep, no banff or jasper, but green complexes looked fun, some very similar faiway feelings there, just missing some more topography.. looked like very good track.. wish we could have played

Monday.. done working 2 pm, sunny but wet, too late for target of Arrowhead..  restaurantuer recommended course just south of airport Olympic, Diamondwhatever..., two minutes away from hotel.. go.. go.. 2:28 tee time.. made it, played in 2:45 hrs..front 9 fun, well conditioned fairways and greens, but spongy grass.. back 9 very bland except for 10 & 15, the par 5's.., no even they we bland.. would only play front 9 and go to range next time..

tues get out of dodge.. hate to leave 70°F weather,  99°F heat index & jet lag in the woodlands.. I'll take a nap in lieu of a round..

yes I'd play sheridan park again, but first.. Whirlpool and then Lock Ness (Hunter's Pointe).. Hamilton is 70 miles west on QEW.. would have gone for Ancaster if it hadn't been wet and a free dinner waiting back at salvatores.. I give preliminary nod to canadian side.. but

more research needed,.. nice to see area getting rebuilt

lastly, Doug Wright.. summer of 1977..  were you involved at Love Canal proceedings?

[Dan Herrmann]

Steve,
Believe me - the old holes at Sheridan were really wonderful before they were plowed under.  You used to cross under Sheridan bridge after that is now #11, and was then #2.  The
3rd was a wonderful par 3 over the creek. There was a long par 5 all the way to the end of the road, followed by 2 opposite direction par 4s with the creek well placed.  Then a long par 4 dogleg back toward Sheridan Drive.  The 8th hole was another par 3, with the creek beyond the green but in play.

You then crossed back under Sheridan and played what's now #12 as #9.

As a college student, $90 per year for unlimited golf here was an amazing bargin.  It was also my first golf club - I joined the men's club there, got a locker and a handicap.  First real match play tournament played there too.

Lots of good memories.

Thanks for the recap!

[Doug Wright]

lastly, Doug Wright.. summer of 1977..  were you involved at Love Canal proceedings?

Steve,

Was I "involved at Love Canal"? I've been denying it for 30 years and continue to do so...
Not sure what you're getting at. I was  a summer
associate at a large Buffalo law firm that summer
of '77. I didn't work on that mess but maybe my firm
did.  I did do some work fighting some tree-huggers
trying to prevent development in the Zoar Valley south of Buffalo.

Sounds like you got a good taste of Buffalo, though
I didn't see a visit to the Anchor Bar (birthplace of
Buffalo wings) in your report. Beef on weck
(from the kummelweck roll used) is terrific--I
don't know why it hasn't spread from WNY
like wings have. Glad you got a tour of
Whirlpool--a fine golf course in a beautiful location.

[Ronald Montesano]

Here's a list for pubs and privates on both sides of the Niagara Gorge.  Does not include Hamilton to Toronto nor Batavia to Rochester.  Herrmann left a long time ago, so don't trust him!!!  No particular order, just as they came to me.

US Side--Buffalo to Niagara Falls

Publics

Arrowhead (Akron-Witter)
Diamond Hawk (Cheektowaga-Hurdzan)
Glen Oak (Amherst-RTJ SR)
Harvest Hill (Orchard Park-Hurdzan)
Ivy Ridge (Akron-no one famous)
Sheridan Park (Tonawanda-Harries)

Privates

CC Buffalo (Williamsville-Ross)
Crag Burn GC (East Aurora-RTJ SR)
East Aurora CC (EA-multiple, incl. Stiles
Niagara Falls CC (Lewiston-Orig. Tilly, RTJ SR and Cornish since)
Orchard Park CC (OP-Travis)
Park CC (Williamsville-Colt/Allison)
River Oaks (Grand Island-Muirhead)
Stafford CC (Batavia-Travis)

Canada

Publics

Thundering Waters (NF-Danoff)
Grand Niagara (NF-Rees)
Hunters Pointe/Lochness (Welland-Cooke)
Whirlpool (NF-Thompson)
Legends (NF-36-Carrick and McBroom)
Royal Niagara (Niagara On The Lake-27-Ted Baker)

Privates

Cherry Hill CC  (Ridgeway-Travis)
Lookout Point  (Fonthill-Travis)
Bridgewater (Fort Erie-Thompson)