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Mike Hendren

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Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« on: June 05, 2008, 05:00:01 PM »
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 05:04:08 PM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Joe Perches

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Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 05:20:32 PM »
I expected to see fairways crossing one over the other, but I've never seen one like that before.  I never want to see one like that again.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 05:27:15 PM by Joe Perches »

John_Cullum

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Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 05:22:32 PM »
I was looking at this same image yesterday.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 05:37:58 PM »

WOW!
At least its free....
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Jason Connor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 05:54:49 PM »
That's crazy!  Here's a schematic from their website



I expected to see fairways crossing one over the other, but I've never seen one like that before.  I never want to see one like that again.

Too late.  They have 3 18's and one of the others is the same:


We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Bill_McBride

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Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 07:19:44 PM »
You think anybody hits one in a backyard every now and then?  ;D

Matt Varney

Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 08:38:40 PM »
This is called a double loaded hole for residential development.  Your big retirement developers in places like AZ / FL love to do this to have a maximum number of golf view home sites to build homes.  I don't need to see anymore of these because they don't have unique holes only a tee box, flat fairways with a few rolls, some bland bunkers and pool table flat greens.

Think about a green hot and humid bowling alley with a couple palm trees for 18 holes.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2008, 12:02:37 AM »
Some of the courses I've seen in Phoenix actually have most of the holes down in valleys between the slightly elevated homesites that start on the OB line.  This is golf in its lowest form........... :P

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2008, 12:15:26 AM »
Matt,
Yes they are double loaded, but these are a beast i've never seen before.
I'd measure the acreage, but don't have the energy.
And the double loading doesn't necessitate flat greens either - I bet someone could have made 18 good holes on each course - the course would still be a 5 max with the routing.

As a positive, think of all the different routing combinations one can play.
I'd like to play the Donkey Kong version.... keep going up like a ramp, and skip a few holes by taking a ladder every so often.

I wonder if they actually chose that routing as they thought it was it was the shortest?  The answer is you have to cross the street a minimum of 6 times no matter how you play.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 12:17:04 AM »
Matt,
Yes they are double loaded, but these are a beast i've never seen before.
I'd measure the acreage, but don't have the energy.
And the double loading doesn't necessitate flat greens either - I bet someone could have made 18 good holes on each course - the course would still be a 5 max with the routing.

As a positive, think of all the different routing combinations one can play.
I'd like to play the Donkey Kong version.... keep going up like a ramp, and skip a few holes by taking a ladder every so often.

I wonder if they actually chose that routing as they thought it was it was the shortest?  The answer is you have to cross the street a minimum of 6 times no matter how you play.

The actual course I'm thinking of in Phoenix had tunnels to go under instead of over roads.  It was efficient but certainly designed for cart traffic. This is the dark side of golf design............

Matt Varney

Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 12:17:20 AM »
Bill,

This is mass produced housing development that just happens to have bad golf holes as well.  Architecture for homes or courses has to be unique and have a style so that it has character and can showcase quality of the design

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 01:46:43 AM »
That's...special.

Doug Siebert

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Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2008, 02:12:23 AM »
I've never seen this done with thru streets, let alone in a grid pattern.  It would work just as well with cul de sacs, and then you aren't restricted to such a geometric layout and trying to fit a playing corridor into a standard block width.  If you have 14 blocks in a mile that's about 125 yards wide including the width of the street plus both lots on either side!  Bet those houses get hit a lot, and I have zero sympathy for the idiots dumb enough to live in them.

Not saying that doing a similar design with cul de sacs is a great idea, but at least you can set the houses back an arbitrary amount to where they aren't in play.  You have fewer lots but they'd be bigger and you could actually sit on your back deck or have a pool without having to wear a hard hat so they'd probably make up the difference.

I have to wonder if the streets were pre-existing and they just built a course to fit, or at least they were platted and there wasn't any way for the developer to change the plans and do them differently.

I've seen courses like Bill describes in Phoenix in California too.  You take some hilly land and have the houses overlook the course.  At least the houses are out of play but the golf is going to be much less interesting since your routing is pretty much dictated by where the valleys take you and you don't get the big elevation changes that would otherwise be possible.  But in areas where you can sell those lots for a half million its hard to argue with the financials.  A golf course using the ideal routing and taking advantage of all the land certainly wouldn't have nearly the return.

Not every course has to have architectural merit, some are just places for people to knock a ball around.  Its like the difference between playing baseball in Wrigley Park or Fenway versus a dome.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2008, 02:37:59 AM »
Apparently designed by.... Mike Andrijiszyn.

http://www.pgatour.com/players/01/16/87/

http://www.worldgolf.com/golf-architects/mike-andrijiszyn.html

Near as I can tell Mr Andrijiszyn is also a pastor in Millbrook AL, and he's building a stairway to heaven...  ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Maximizing ROI Through "Basket Weave" Routing New
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2008, 10:50:33 AM »
The thing is that area has some very good terrain for golf. I have been to this club once but did not play it. They had a big demo day up there a couple of years ago with most of the major manufacturers setting up. The area around the driving range was pretty rolling. I never saw the part of course routed through the straights and narrows.

The club across the road just to the west (Brentwood Farms) is extreme hillside golf. You could flip a cart without trying on it.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 10:52:59 AM by John_Cullum »
"We finally beat Medicare. "

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