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Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
I saw something wonderful yesterday...
« on: June 01, 2008, 11:19:50 PM »
Yesterday I was playing at one of my favorite local courses.  Favorite because it is the most interesting and quirky course for at least an hour, maybe two, in any direction, favorite because its few trees and large elevation changes really brings the wind into play, and favorite because rounds rarely take even four hours there and since it is well away from town its often possible to call up at noon on Saturday and make a tee time for an hour or two later.

So my dad and I started off at our 1:50 time secured at noon, him riding and me walking, as per usual.  The first two holes we didn't have to wait at all, on the 3rd we caught up with a threesome in front, and when we got to the fourth tee we could see there was a twosome in front of them, a foursome in front of that twosome and so on.  No problem, it was a nice day, and we didn't expect to be able to play in three hours on a gorgeous Saturday afternoon.

We waited often from them on, but none of the waits were more than a few minutes, and we finished the front nine in about 1:40.  Had to wait a bit more on #10, but that's usual as some people take more time at the turn than others, but when we get to the green we see the group in front of us waiting and the group in front of them just teeing off!  One of the guys from the group ahead said that there was a group a few holes ahead who had THREE holes clear in front of them and the ranger had forced them to skip a hole.

On the 12th tee, a par 3, the arrival of my dad and I made four groups on the hole -- one just finishing up on the green and three on the tee!  We could see the 15th green about 50 yards from there, and saw FOUR carts and SEVEN guys apparently all playing together, and the 16th (a long uphill par 5) was totally empty.  Guess they were the ones!  A ranger drove up while we watched and we could see some discussion, clearly the guys were not happy about what they were being told.  After about five minutes the ranger drove off, and then the four carts all left.  At first it looked like two of them were going to move to 17 and the others move to 16, but the ones driving towards 16 stopped by the tee for a moment, and then drove on and left by way of the path back up the hill to the 11th tee, so clearly they were not just skipping another hole.

I've always said that if I owned a course I'd kick people off for slow play.  You give them a warning, and if they don't listen, tell them to take a hike.  Some people think that's too harsh or claim you can't turn away paying customers.  But I have no problem with kicking out the 1% of problem players and keep the 99% non-problem players happier and more likely to return.  From talking to the groups ahead and behind us opinion was divided, half thought it was the right thing to do, half thought it was too harsh.

Obviously part of the reason they were kicked off is that undoubtedly the ranger had told them they couldn't all play together, and that was one of the big reasons they were slow, and they were probably drunk by then also judging from the number of beer cans in the wire trash baskets next to each tee.  But I think its great regardless to see people actually kicked off a golf course for this, instead of doing like most would do and figure "well they've only got three holes to go, we don't want to lose them as customers in the future so we'll just let them finish"  It took a few holes to work out the logjam but by the time we got to the 14th tee the waits on the remaining holes were pretty standard and we finished in about 4 hours even, which isn't bad considering that 11-13 probably took us over an hour.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I saw something wonderful yesterday...
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2008, 11:55:10 PM »

Wouldn't it be great if more courses were designed so a sixsome could play in under 4 hours?
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

John Moore II

Re: I saw something wonderful yesterday...
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 01:34:56 PM »
Mike--I would actually say that any course can be played by a 6some in 4 hours, if you are playing skins or something like that.

--I think its great that people were removed from the course, I would do that myself if the situation got too bad, like it was there.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I saw something wonderful yesterday...
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 01:43:39 PM »
Yesterday I was playing at one of my favorite local courses.  Favorite because it is the most interesting and quirky course for at least an hour, maybe two, in any direction, favorite because its few trees and large elevation changes really brings the wind into play, and favorite because rounds rarely take even four hours there and since it is well away from town its often possible to call up at noon on Saturday and make a tee time for an hour or two later.


Doug:

OK, nice story; more importantly, what course is this??


Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I saw something wonderful yesterday...
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2008, 01:18:55 AM »
Saddleback Ridge in Solon, IA, which is about 10 miles north of where I live in Iowa City.  If you are ever going to be in the area, drop me a line.  I think the GCA crowd would love this course, its interesting to look at and play as it has a bit of the links look and style (particularly when the wind is really blowing) surrounded by Iowa farmland -- you can even potentially hit a silo off the 18th tee if you've got a wicked enough duck hook....I did it once, it makes quite a sound, sorta like a billion cc Ti driver! ;)

Its got quirk, with only two bunkers on the whole course, plus 6 par 5s and 6 par 3s that all manage to be unique in their own way which is hard to do in my experience particularly with par 5s.  Lots of dramatic elevation change, there's a little water here and there but it doesn't come too much into play, there are some trees here and there that likewise don't come too much into play, lots of long fescue grass that doesn't come overly much into play even for a often wild driver like me (i.e. less so than at Lawsonia)

There are some pretty wild greens along with some pretty tame ones, a nice mix.  You gotta see the 13th, it gives any of the greens at Lawsonia a run for the money.  There are some approaches where the green surface is blind, tee shots where the landing area is blind, and certainly some completely blind shots if you are out of position or in a couple cases when playing for a par 5 in two.

Angles of approach actually matter here on a lot of holes, in terms of visibility or advantageous/disadvantageous green slopes/dimensions.  There's also a great example of a skyline green on the very steeply uphill 325 yard 10th, with trees on the hills to either side but not a thing behind it.  For some pin positions you can't even see the top of the flag from where most people's drives will end up.

OK, don't play here instead of The Harvester, but I'd pick it in a heartbeat over say the Amana Colonies or Bos Landen courses in the state that the magazine rater drones seem to love so much.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Jim Nugent

Re: I saw something wonderful yesterday...
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2008, 03:32:48 AM »
Doug - photos?

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I saw something wonderful yesterday...
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2008, 09:22:07 AM »
Doug:

Thanks for the name! And a $22 rate for walking weekdays ($28 weekends) to boot. Looks interesting, from some of the photos.

Any info. on the architect/designer of record?

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I saw something wonderful yesterday...
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 02:32:25 AM »
Jim,

Sorry I keep meaning to take photos but the combination of me never playing very early when the shadows make the photos attractive and me being the world's worst photographer have kept it on that part of my 'to do' list that never seems to get done...  There are some pictures on their web site:

http://www.saddlebackridgegolf.com/pictures.html

The first one is the skyline 10th hole I was talking about, the green is between those trees and over the crest of that hill, you can just make out the white flag near the left trees.  The 3rd one is of the 13th hole looking back towards the tee, its the one which has the really wild green, but there's no contrast in that photo so it looks flat.  Trust me, with several tiers, a blind false front, front to back and back to front slopes, and being built into a hillside so the whole thing is one giant optical illusion, its not!


Phil,

The architect was Mark Kerr of Kerr Golf Design, he's designed a few other courses in Iowa but to my knowledge nowhere else.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

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