[PThomas]

Geoff Shackelford's site this a.m. has an item how fast they are apparently this week...he quotes Joe Ogilviy who says they are probably a 15 on the Stimp

of course, at least the leaders scored quite well yesterday, so if Jack wants to make the course more challenging for them maybe he should put in more slope and slow them down...

[Steve Kline]

I played in a tournament at Carlton Woods in The Woodlands a few weeks ago. The greens were 13 on the stimpmeter and smooth as glass. I had never putted on greens that fast but found it to be a piece of cake. If you read the putt correctly and got the ball online you were going to make it - even from 20 to 25 feet. Certainly tour pros would find it even easier than I would. I agree that if the Tour/courses wanted to make greens harder to putt they would slow them and put more slope in them. Maybe even not roll them.

[Phil Benedict]

When Tour pros talk about fast greens they are not complaining.  They only complain if they are too slow.

One of the most persistent myths in golf is that fast greens are harder to putt.  Occasionally you find yourself in a bad position on fast greens but that is more than offset my making more putts than you normally make on slower greens.

[PThomas]

When Tour pros talk about fast greens they are not complaining.  They only complain if they are too slow.

One of the most persistent myths in golf is that fast greens are harder to putt.  Occasionally you find yourself in a bad position on fast greens but that is more than offset my making more putts than you normally make on slower greens.

it would be interesting if someone would ask Jack: " you are furrowing the bunkers to make recovery from them more difficult, but the greens at MV are so true and so fast, would you ever consider redoing them with more slope to make them more challenging, since you are doing the same with the bunkers?"

such a train of thought seems logical to me, but maybe its just me...

[Phil Benedict]

Paul,

I think Jack's point with furrowed bunkers is that there should be a penalty for a hitting into a bunker.  Greens that are close to perfect reward good strokes, whereas bunkers that are close to perfect reward bad shots. 

[PThomas]

I see your point Phil

Geoff S earlier this week had a quote from Jack stating to the effect that he hates deception in design, and greens with more severe slopes might be considered more deceptive

[Kalen Braley]

I see your point Phil

Geoff S earlier this week had a quote from Jack stating to the effect that he hates deception in design, and greens with more severe slopes might be considered more deceptive

Sounds like code word for "its all right out there in front of you" ...... fun stuff

[PThomas]

]

Sounds like code word for "its all right out there in front of you" ...... fun stuff

one of Tiger's favorite lines Kalen

will be interesting to see Tiger's course in GA.....he says the above, yet i think he's said that TOC is his favorite, so something's gotta give

[TEPaul]

"Geoff S earlier this week had a quote from Jack stating to the effect that he hates deception in design,"


Paul:

Is that right? I've never been able to articulate (even to myself) why I've never exactly cottoned to Nicklaus architecture and maybe that's the real reason.

[PThomas]

"Geoff S earlier this week had a quote from Jack stating to the effect that he hates deception in design,"


Paul:

Is that right? I've never been able to articulate (even to myself) why I've never exactly cottoned to Nicklaus architecture and maybe that's the real reason.

Tom - yes it is....it was the quote right at the top of Geoff S's website one day earlier this week...if i can find the exact quote i shall post

[Glenn Spencer]

MVGC is the only course in the world that I ever remember missing a 20-foot putt and thinking "How the hell did I miss that?"

[Jerry Kluger]

Interesting theories but have you seen the scores today - I don't see many red numbers and a whole bunch of big black numbers.

[Nick Pozaric]

I spoke with an agronomist that was there last week and he said they were the best greens he had ever seen in his life.  He also mentioned they are using some new Toro mowers with a new grooming system that are helping out as well

[Jim Nugent]

Interesting theories but have you seen the scores today - I don't see many red numbers and a whole bunch of big black numbers.

Still, MV has given up some real low scores over the years.  I believe 268 is the tournament record -- 20 under par.  Lots of 64's in the tournament's history, at least one 63 and even a 61. 

Are the greens the big reason the pro's at times can tear apart the course?  Glenn's comment is pretty telling IMO. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Geoff Shackelford's site this a.m. has an item how fast they are apparently this week...he quotes Joe Ogilviy who says they are probably a 15 on the Stimp

of course, at least the leaders scored quite well yesterday, so if Jack wants to make the course more challenging for them maybe he should put in more slope and slow them down...

Paul,

Retraction?

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