[TEPaul]

"I've already had supper, Tom.  It's 9pm over here."

Don't you dare try to be some smart-ass with me, young man! In that case spit out your supper and go to your room immediately.

[Thomas MacWood]

Tom

You are the one who is confused.  The "High Bents" course was on Dodhead--just a primitive 6 holes on the same property where 18 mostly WP Jr. holes exist today. You are correct sir! Well, almost correct. The 6 hole High Bents course occupied land that is now the current course. That is true. But it was only 16 acres and the current course is on 80+acres, at least it was 80+ acres in the late 1890s. If you knew the goegraphy, you would understand that.  No evidence that I know of that OTM was involved in the 1891 primitive effort.  He was better than that.    I was mistaken, the article did not mention an architect in 1891. When all else fails blame it on Tom Dunn.

Cheers

Rich

[Rich Goodale]

Thanks, tom

I think the present course is still only 80 acres or so.  Extremely compact and cleverly routed.  Can't see any of Tom Dunn's signature design elements there.

[TEPaul]

Tom MacWood:

You and Moriarty have been harping on Wayne Morrison and me for years now claiming we've been minimizing C.B. Macdonald and disrespecting him and his architecture.

I want you to know I think the way you two birds, particularly you, have disrespected Tom Dunn is truly shocking.

Obviously you two did not know that Tom Dunn built some of the best and most precise rectangular and truly geometric cop bunkers the entire history of architecture has ever seen and you probably didn't know he was married to Isabel Gourlay of Musselburgh who was known as the greatest woman golfer of her day.

I think Tom Dunn very likely picked up more useful information and knowledge about the principles of quality architecture just having sex with her than you two will ever know!

[Thomas MacWood]

I think Tom Dunn very likely picked up more useful information and knowledge about the principles of quality architecture just having sex with her than you two will ever know!

TE
Perhaps you can suggest to your USGA architectural initiative group that an exhibition should be prepared, showing how Dunn picked up useful information. Right next to a Macdonald exhibition with Wayne urinated on CBM's grave. Both done in wax. I really think the public is ready for that sort of thing. And how could we forget your Devereux Emmet display. I'm sure all the Emmet clubs in America will be tripping over themselves to contribute material.

[TEPaul]

"Perhaps you can suggest to your USGA architectural initiative group that an exhibition should be prepared, showing how Dunn picked up useful information. Right next to a Macdonald exhibition with Wayne urinated on CBM's grave. Both done in wax. I really think the public is ready for that sort of thing. And how could we forget your Devereux Emmet display. I'm sure all the Emmet clubs in America will be tripping over themselves to contribute material."


Tom MacWood:

It certainly has taken you years but I'm glad to see you're finally using your head. I'll make those suggestions first thing tomorrow morning. I think the DevieE "Gay" Architecture display would've been a lot more popular in NYC at the Russian Tea Room but what're gonna do? The good news is Far Hills has much more real estate to do a really good recreation of Charlie's famous "Hen" House.

[Mike_Cirba]

Actually, Tom Dunn was almost the architect of Cobb's Creek....

or, at least it's proposed predecessor.

Around 1905, one of the first of several initiatives to have a public golf course built in Fairmount Park in Philadelphia tried to get Tom Dunn (after early rumors that it was going to be Harry Vardon), with one news account basically saying that he was the cat's meow of architecture.   

Perhaps the city was prescient in waiting another 10 years or so...

[TEPaul]

Mike:

Tom Dunn was considered for Cobb's in 1905? Wow, cool!! Why don't we crap-can this restoration plan and see if we can get some traction that there's a Tom Dunn routing for Cobb's floating around out there somewhere and do a really good geometric project? Do you think we could get David Moriarty to write an IMO essay on here about that mysterious Tom Dunn routing and give it some traction?

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike:

Tom Dunn was considered for Cobb's in 1905? Wow, cool!! Why don't we crap-can this restoration plan and see if we can get some traction that there's a Tom Dunn routing for Cobb's floating around out there somewhere and do a really good geometric project? Do you think we could get David Moriarty to write an IMO essay on here about that mysterious Tom Dunn routing and give it some traction?

Tom,

I shat you not.   Here is what was reported.   I was actually 1900.   Once again, I misspoke under sniper fire;

"After much consultation Tom Dunn was decided upon as the man most likely to fulfill the committee's requirements.   Dunn is without doubt the best equipped authority on the subject of laying out golf courses (I guess he simply "Built and constructed them" to someone else's plans  comment mine) this world can produce."

"He was connected for many years with the course at Bournemouth, the fashionable south of England watering place, where there is an ideal public course, but his reputation has been made not so much by his playing abilities as his inveterate qualities as a green maker. "

"Dunn has been invited to Philadephia by Colonel Snowden for the purpose of going over the available ground in Fairmount Park judging upon its adaptability for a course and making an estimate upon the cost of laying out an 18-hole links and a further estimate of the cost of maintenance of the same."

[Thomas MacWood]

Tony
You are right the heathland was no good for agriculture, therefore it was of little value. Eventually they discovered it was perfect for housing, and so its value must have risen accordingly. My question is when was that land no longer inexpensive. In the twenties or thirties or earlier or even later.

Park was an original investor in Huntercombe. He owned £5000 of the initial issue of stock (of a total of £25,000), the same amount as HH Gardiner, the previous owner of the property. They were two largest stock holders. Roberts owned £500.

Tony M
I think I found a partial answer to my question. Hermann Muthesius, German architect, did a thorough study of British domestic lifestyle at the turn of the century. He said around London houses and rented property on sandy soil cost twice as much as those on clay. He published his findings in 1904.

[Thomas MacWood]

Actually, Tom Dunn was almost the architect of Cobb's Creek....

or, at least it's proposed predecessor.

Around 1905, one of the first of several initiatives to have a public golf course built in Fairmount Park in Philadelphia tried to get Tom Dunn (after early rumors that it was going to be Harry Vardon), with one news account basically saying that he was the cat's meow of architecture.   

Perhaps the city was prescient in waiting another 10 years or so...

Does the fact that Tom Dunn had been dead for 3 years in 1905 say something about the state of early Phildalphia golf?

[TEPaul]

"Does the fact that Tom Dunn had been dead for 3 years in 1905 say something about the state of early Phildalphia golf?"


No, but it certainly says something about the state of the Philadelphia city government when it came to understanding golf or public golf which was almost never any good, and that's exactly why the quite novel arrangement was made with GAP and some of its members who came in and did the course for free.

But the nature and tone of Tom MacWood's question certainly does continue to say something about his lack of understanding of Philadelphia golf and his ongoing sarcasm towards it.

[Andy Hughes]

But the nature and tone of Tom MacWood's question certainly does continue to say something about his lack of understanding of Philadelphia golf and his ongoing sarcasm towards it.

Fascinating thread, enjoying it quite a bit. Tom Mac.--thanks for the IMO.

(But TEP, c'mon, you have to concede, TMac's comment was pretty funny, no?)

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom

The date was 1900 as I mentioned in my second post.

Hahaha.

Speaking of steak, I'm thinking we might aptly retitle a certain essay, "Where's the Beef?".

[TEPaul]

"(But TEP, c'mon, you have to concede, TMac's comment was pretty funny, no?)"

I so concede. As I've said many times, humor works for me, particularly on here on some of these threads where some take themselves too seriously pretty much all that time. 
 
 
 

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