The Final Straw

[DMoriarty]

Mr. Morrow,

You have a very interesting perspective on these issues.  Mistaken I think, but interesting nonetheless.

In your last paragraph you warn:  "make no assumptions as that seem to get you into deep water, you don’t know what people are thinking."   

Yet you write of me:   "It seems so obvious that you must be trying to cause a problem for certain individuals or this site, because I do not believe you to be a stupid man, far from it, but your actions seem very deliberate."   Perhaps you should heed your own advice, as you are completely wrong about my intentions.   

I don’t believe this debate has been worthy of this site. I blame you for that because you had previous knowledge of the existing members and I suspect that you knew the reaction you would generate.

This the the part I found so fascinating.   You blame me because I knew the reaction I would generate from TEPaul, Wayne, and Mike?    I like to think that we are each responsible for our own behavior, so I have trouble accepting responsibility for TomPaul's misbehavior  or anyone elses.

Even now, while you criticize me for participating at all, TEPaul maligns me and attacks me for not entertaining his endless questions, even though we have discussed his exact theory for page after page after page! It seems I am sinister if I reply and worse if I don't. 



You suggest I should never have come back because I knew there was a chance that TEPaul, Wayne, and Mike Cirba might I freak out again?

Maybe it is a character flaw, but that doesn't work for me.  I've never been good with bullies, and have always preferred taking a black eye or two rather than allowing bullying to dissuade me from doing what I would otherwise do.    That seems to be exactly what you would have preferred, but that is not my nature.

Don't get me wrong.  They had nothing to do with why I came back.  I came back in spite of them, not because of them.   And while you may not think it justifies my behavior, when hit and hit and hit I will eventually hit back.  Childish maybe, but we all have our faults. 

What is it again that justifies your harsh words toward me?   I should have stayed away because I knew they might again try to bully me?  I should not respond no matter how rude and untruthful their comments might become?    I said that Wayne has taken his ball and gone home? 

Do you think my words for them (like my ball comment) have been anymore harsh or hostile than your comments to me?   

How would you respond to the following post?

David Moriaty, it has become patently clear to me and it should be clear to everyone else on here that you have no interest at all, NONE, in discussing what went on at Merion in the era you selected for your essay, and of course we understand why---you will be proven wrong and you can't take that. On most of these Merion threads now you have absolutely defaulted any responsibility to discuss what you said in that essay and this has turned into nothing more than you constantly complaining about manners and incivility on here. You should switch over to some website on manners if you can't or won't engage in a discussion on architecture as it relates to the specious reasoning in your essay on Merion and these threads. I don't know what it is about you but every thread you have ever been on on this website has been an unmitigated disaster. Why in the world I ever was so foolish enough to encourage you to come back on this site is absolutely beyond me. You are much worse than you've ever been. It is a totally pathetic display you're carrying on here and I can't imagine what is going on with the administrators of GOLFCLUBALTAS.com to allow it to continue.

I think I'll ignore it.  But I am sure that many will see that as somehow provoking them. 

[John Kavanaugh]

I am somewhat ashamed that I have not been able to defend my good friend David Moriarty in this battle against his character.  I just don't have the energy to read or understand the arguments at hand.  I am convinced that if he were a member of a famous club the tenor of outside participants would be different.

I'm here for ya David but I'm not sure where I am at.

[John Kirk]

I also count Dave Moriarty as a friend.  In addition, I have had friendly conversations or message exchanges with both Wayne Morrison and Tom Paul.  Like JK, I haven't followed the discussion carefully, because I'm not interested in historical considerations.  Merion is a great golf course.

In my opinion, the person with the most at stake here is Wayne Morrison.  More than anyone, it is Wayne's responsibility to analyze the data and correctly reconstruct the club's history.  And with Tom Paul assisting, I wish them nothing but the best.  Ultimately, David's contributions should be beneficial to their cause.

For those who don't know the story, I was with David Moriarty the one time he played Merion GC.  It was the first time I had met David.  He played Merion, poorly, with a set of hickory clubs, which see less frequent duty in recent years.  On the 15th hole, our fourth player, an ex-GolfClubAtlas member who rarely posted, hit a high pull towards the entrance drive as a car was leaving the club.  I could see, seconds in advance, that the intersection of ball and car trajectory was a very good match.  "BAM!", either on the hood or roof of the late model American sedan.  As we nervously watched, the driver got out, inspected the car, and then drove off, much to our relief.  Horrifying.

[Melvyn Morrow]

David

You have a right to respond to my comments, I would expect nothing less.

These recent posts have not helping my position on this site, but I feel that something needed to be said, from someone outside the Merion debate. I don’t believe my comments to be harsh words, but then that’s my opinion.

My comments are a reaction to your posts. As I said you produced a detailed interesting essay, which appears to have moved the debate further forward. I just wish that you had let your essay do ”the Talking”.

As for TEPaul, he printed some rather unpleasant comments about Old Tom which he put at the door of Tom MacWood, but which could not be substantiated. Tom MacWood e-mailed me saying he would never describe Old Tom in that way. I had no problem believing MacWood. As for Mike C he passed on my e-mail address without first obtaining my consent.

I don’t agree with TEPaul on a few things, I understand his modus operandi so tend to steer clear of entering into his discussions/posts. I have learnt that in my short time at GCA.com. But my post was not directed at him.

Just a thought. How many years were you a member of GCA.com before leaving? Was it time enough to understand those who you felt had driven you away?

The greatest loser is this site, as clearly now the debate is going underground and may only resurface when all interested parties have examined the history.  We, the other members are also the losers, we just have to sit back and wait.

I do not intend to comment further on Merion debate, I think everyone must be tired of the infighting.

In closing, do you think you had any part in the current state of play ?

[DMoriarty]

John Kirk.

I am tired of your insulting tone and specious logic.  You obviously just don't understand who these people are like I know who these people are and that you would even suggest that it might have been an American sedan but not a classic Mercedes sedan just demonstrates your small-mindedness and for you to even suggest otherwise just further goes to show that you have absolutely nothing to add to this conversation and it is my duty to defend those who you continue to insult with your syllogistic reasoning and narrow minded theories that make it clear to all of us that you are a complete waste of our time. 

I've driven up and down clubhouse road hundreds of times and for you to show up in Philadelphia for one day and not even drive the road but to witness one car being beamed with a high week hook from 200 yards away and then claim you know what you are talking about with any of this just shows a lot about you and that is all I have to say. 

You probably did not even know that the men who built that course were all involved in shipping and the railroads and do you know what they also dealt with?  I am sure you say that you do but there is no way you could, not like me, because i understand these men and have driven that road thousands of times, including three times before typing this paragraph and what you don't know is that these men knew steel and dealt with steel every day and they knew what German steel sounded like and what American steel sounded like, and they would never have been caught dead driving a German car.     You probably did not even realize that we were about to go to war with who else but the Germans and for you to even think about claiming that anyone near Merion would ever insult them by driving an German car is just the kind of person you are.   

And I am sure that is why you didn't because it would expose you but now I suppose you are going to twist that to and say that somehow because it was American and not German that these men are somehow living in the past and holding grudges and that is what it all comes down to with you are these crazy and insecure notions about grudges and over-defensiveness of our legends, but we see through you now, Fella.   It was not an American sedan, but a Mercedes, Fella.   

You are right about one thing, though, I did play poorly.

[Tom Huckaby]

John Kirk.

I am tired of your insulting tone and specious logic.  You obviously just don't understand who these people are like I know who these people are and that you would even suggest that it might have been an American sedan but not a classic Mercedes sedan just demonstrates your small-mindedness and for you to even suggest otherwise just further goes to show that you have absolutely nothing to add to this conversation and it is my duty to defend those who you continue to insult with your syllogistic reasoning and narrow minded theories that make it clear to all of us that you are a complete waste of our time. 

I've driven up and down clubhouse road hundreds of times and for you to show up in Philadelphia for one day and not even drive the road but to witness one car being beamed with a high week hook from 200 yards away and then claim you know what you are talking about with any of this just shows a lot about you and that is all I have to say. 

You probably did not even know that the men who built that course were all involved in shipping and the railroads and do you know what they also dealt with?  I am sure you say that you do but there is no way you could, not like me, because i understand these men and have driven that road thousands of times, including three times before typing this paragraph and what you don't know is that these men knew steel and dealt with steel every day and they knew what German steel sounded like and what American steel sounded like, and they would never have been caught dead driving a German car.     You probably did not even realize that we were about to go to war with who else but the Germans and for you to even think about claiming that anyone near Merion would ever insult them by driving an German car is just the kind of person you are.   

And I am sure that is why you didn't because it would expose you but now I suppose you are going to twist that to and say that somehow because it was American and not German that these men are somehow living in the past and holding grudges and that is what it all comes down to with you are these crazy and insecure notions about grudges and over-defensiveness of our legends, but we see through you now, Fella.   It was not an American sedan, but a Mercedes, Fella.   

You are right about one thing, though, I did play poorly.

I hate weighing in on these threads.  I'd like to think I am friends with each of David Moriarty and Tom Paul.  I've played golf with each of them and each are very fine playing companions.  But whatever one says on these threads tends has great potential to piss off one or the other, so.....

Thus it is with some trepidation that I say this:

This post of Dave's is one of the funniest in the history of GCA.  I swear I was dying as I read it.

The Tom Paul I know is very witty and has one hell of a sense of humor.  If he can read this and laugh - as he really ought to - then perhaps the acrimony behind these threads can FINALLY come to an end?

Or perhaps I am very naive.

Tom Huckaby

[TEPaul]

David Moriarty:

Your post #57 is almost perfect but not quite. It would've been perfect if you'd just written it without the crutch of all those emoticons but I guess as Lanny used to say; "You ain't got the guts". You know the way it goes, right----we have to test the rather low grade "humor-meter" on here all the time.

[DMoriarty]

David Moriarty:

Your post #57 is almost perfect but not quite. It would've been perfect if you'd just written it without the crutch of all those emoticons but I guess as Lanny used to say; "You ain't got the guts". You know the way it goes, right----we have to test the rather low grade "humor-meter" on here all the time.

 

[TEPaul]

 ""



No worries mate, just squirt a little WD-40 on your "Humor-meter".

[Bill_McBride]

All right, Tom Paul, now you've done it.

How do you add those ears to the    emoticon?

[Garland Bayley]

All right, Tom Paul, now you've done it.

How do you add those ears to the    emoticon?

Bill,

Any time you want to see how someone did something, just push the quote button. I did and found it was exactly as I suspected.
" "