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Mark Bourgeois

Fouled by Foulpointe
« on: May 28, 2008, 11:01:57 AM »
Searches on GCA.com New and Improved site: uses of course as punch line for jokes.
Searches of old US and UK newspapers: zero.
USGA search: zero.
LA84: zero.
C&W: zero.
Google Earth: well, there does appear to be some kind of course down there.

NZ+ZA too familiar to be strange, the map's corners recede to Maddy...serious responses only (Rich).

Thanks,
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Rich Goodale

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2008, 11:19:37 AM »
http://www.mandabeach-hotel.com/en/golf-foulpointe-madagascar.html

Ah yes.  Glof Club Foulpointe.  The gold standard of dyslexic GCA.........
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2008, 11:44:32 AM »
Ah yes i forgot to mention that site.

But is this the same Floupoint?

I thought it might not be, for how can a heralded course fall so completely from grace?

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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2008, 11:47:33 AM »
Mark, It is a pity that the seach engine doesn't bring up some of the real discussion we had at the very beginning, in trying to determine why (I forget which writer specifically) a golden era writer commented that Foulpointe in Madagascar was among the ten greatest courses in the world, and I believe named greats like Hagen and Sarecen and famous Brits as having attested to that notion of greatness.  

Then, the humor started to enter the discussion, and some brilliant yet not fully sane GCA started to write his great novel in a series of installments here on GCA.com, with Foulpointe and a cast of weird characters, as the centerpiece of a retro jungle mystery.  

I wish I could provide a link to the old threads, but my searches never yield anything.
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Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 11:53:02 AM »
Dick,

I believe Forrest Richardson was the culprit behind the Foulpointe novella. That might aid in the search.
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 11:56:02 AM »
I couldn't resist...from the link above...

The particularity of this golf course is that the state of the ground is very undulated, so most of holes are blindly played. What a spicy party !
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So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 11:57:41 AM »
RJ and Rich

Did anyone have references beyond the MacWood list? Maybe I can find those.

I guess my real question is, does that course still exist? What's down there today? Has anyone been?

Thanks for replying by the way.

Mark
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BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2008, 12:00:23 PM »
To let a little air into the room, Foulpointe was ranked in 1938 by a diverse group of raters as one of the best courses in the world. (BTW, are we spelling it correctly?) The course Rich found is a modern pretender.

It remains one of the most mysterious courses in the world. It appears to have vanished sometime during or after WWII. No one alive today has seen it. And Madagascar, being careless about many other things, including its golf courses, has no record of its existence.

So the mystery lives on. The good news, however, is that there has been no speculation that CBM did the routing.

Bob    
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2008, 12:02:37 PM »
Rick

The search did turn up a number of references to Forrests serial.

But again my question is, did any of these old threads offer up any facts, or questions and speculation?

Was the MacWood list inclusion a big inside joke or was it serious?

Brad, you've been deputized. Start searching whatever you've got access to.

Thanks for the help everyone!
Mark
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Rich Goodale

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2008, 12:03:16 PM »
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on May 28, 2008, 11:44:32 AM
Ah yes i forgot to mention that site.

But is this the same Floupoint?

I thought it might not be, for how can a heralded course fall so completely from grace?



Mark

It was that butcher Duponsel, who most serious students of GCA believe to be the love child of Hugh Wilson and a Gaucho princess, spawned in that famous golden triangular voyage of his from Philadelphia to St. Andrews to the Rio Plate and back in 1910-1911.....

Your obedient servant

Rhic
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2008, 12:06:04 PM »
Ah. Thanks, Bob. Well, there goes that weekend plan....

But how do you know Bob it disappeared?

Mark
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BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2008, 12:08:46 PM »
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on May 28, 2008, 12:02:37 PM

Was the MacWood list inclusion a big inside joke or was it serious?


It was not MacWood's list. Foupoint was listed in a ranking of the 50 best courses in the world published in the National Golf Journal in 1938 or 1939.

Helpfully, Bob
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BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2008, 12:11:55 PM »
Mark - I am guessing on its disappearance dates based on the fact that the course dropped off the lists after WWII. Like Prince's.

Bob
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2008, 12:16:05 PM »
Rich

I told you, serious replies only! It's Rio Plata. Who was Duponsel?

Are there any viable Indiana Jones courses left out there? Not crap courses in Far Niente, good courses in Est Jesus.

Foulpointe was a hope but its been gloffed.

I guess there's the Coore course in Indy...any others?

Mark

PS Bob I might have gone to Yale but I'm not that stupid! I know it's not Mac's list.
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2008, 12:20:05 PM »
Maybe rater tastes just changed. Or once the newness wore off it dropped. Or maybe not enough raters visited it for it to qualify.

Maybe it's still there. Maybe Alison (or was it Morrison?) did a little work there from his ZA base.

Mark
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Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2008, 12:21:56 PM »
Mark,

At the time, we were all pretty excited about trying to find some facts about the original Foulpointe, but none were unearthed -- which is why, I suppose, Forrest resorted to entertaining fiction.

I was thinking Indiana Jones myself when it comes to that (perhaps) mythical Madagascar golf course. If Spielberg is lurking, maybe he'll consider a script in which Indy races the Nazis to get the first Saturday morning tee time at Foulpointe.
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2008, 12:25:28 PM »
Rick

Helpful. Did anyone contact the glof club Rich references?

Mark
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2008, 12:31:07 PM »
Yes, and I believe the scan of the article was actually posted.  I also believe, if memory is not too cloudy, that the raters were listed, among whom were golf luminarieis of the day.

I think we may have had a consensus in that discussion that the real course wasn't even in same location as the modern course called Foulpoint in Madagascar.  Perhaps the jungle swallowed it up, as one might expect in such environments.  

It should be incumbent upon Forrest to share his research and findings he conducted in preparation of writing his epic novella, as to the routing and origins of Foulepoint.  To imagine that the committee led by the mysterious robberbarron rich man in the white panama suit and hat may have had the Good Dr., in for a consult and feasibility and preliminary routing as early as 1910, then turned the construction over to MacGonkey, only to have some revisionist come in and suggest that the first routing was done by CB, is stunning.  There are ship manifests showing Dr. A.I McKensey, had a stateroom that he shared with Dame Lady Goodhead indicating a return steam freighter trip to Dover from Mahajanga Madagascar in July 1909.  cold that be our man?  

Foulepoint... the mystery begs to be solved by "serious researchers".  ;) :D ;D   <--- sorry Boab...
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2008, 12:38:08 PM »
RJ

You mean the article in which the ranking appeared? I've seen that. I think I pulled it up via the USGA, but its been awhile.

Or was there another article?

Does Forrest really have anything on it?

Thanks
Mark

PS Stop that right now! There's something about Mary Foulpointe....
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2008, 12:48:47 PM »
No Mark, honestly, I don't think Forrest had anything specific to add on the actual golf course in question.  Again, if memory serves, Forrest actually made a comment that he was there in the Peace Corps or something, but that might have also been a bit of the baloney.  Somehow though that sticks in my mind that he actually was there, but didn't really have any relevant info on the real Foulepoint.  Yet, it might be worth digging Forrest up, where ever he might be at the moment...
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2008, 01:31:18 PM »
According to Madagascar PGA archival records, one "Indiana" Jones was the last golf professional......
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2008, 04:25:35 PM »
OMG, Foulpointe pops up in the latest edition of the World Atlas of Golf !!!

A tiny little flag is even pinned to the map of the Dark Continent showing its location.

Now I ask you, why would the Book of Record include a course, locate it on a map, and write it up...if it were NLE?  This doesn't make any sense.

Unless...
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2008, 08:58:09 PM »
Uncle Dick,

Bailing you out again, just remember the thread was started by Tim Weiman. Associate it with snoring.

Link: http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55.0.html
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 09:14:04 PM by Pete_Pittock »
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Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2008, 09:12:34 PM »
Tim Weiman referred to a Tom McWood "In my Opinion". This links to a 1939 article in the National Golf Review regarding the 100 finest courses in the world. Foulpointe rests at #10.

Link: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/opinionmacwood6.html

 One could argue that Foulpointe was an inside joke pointing to the listing of 101 clubs. The editors, suspiciously including a Mr. William Rochardson, include a combination of two nine hole courses (Royal Worlington & Newmarket and the original Prairie Dunes.
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Forrest Richardson

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Re: Fouled by Foulpointe
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2008, 05:53:29 PM »
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55.0.html

I am terribly sorry if anyone has been waiting for the balance of the Slifkin and company story...I have been away lately.
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— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
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