A Fan's Photo Tribute to Pacific Dunes - 18th hole commentary now in progress

[Nick Cauley]

I would also like to thank you for a great post.  I can't wait to see more.

[Ted Kramer]

Love this topic.
I've played the course a few times and hit driver on #2 every round.
I'm not the longest hitter, but that "shoe bunker" never even crossed my mind.
I love the green but I think this is a perfect example of a hole that would be greatly improved if the tee were moved back about 30 yards . . . I'm not a "I need 7,000 yards or else the course is crap" kind of guy, but this hole needs a few extra yards in my opinion to really put that bunker in play.

Great course. One of my all time favorties.
Thanks for the effort on this topic.
Looking forward to seeing more.

-Ted

[Tom Huckaby]

GREAT photos and commentary re #2 also!

But a suggestion - do separate threads for each hole.  That's what George did re Oakmont and it worked very, very well.  Pacific Dunes is certainly worthy of the same treatment.  If you don't, lazy asses like me won't know when a new hole is added... and also the discussion will shift back and forth and get quite confusing for those of us with simple minds.

In any case I believe 2 is a great hole also.  The "shoe bunker" does come into play in the summer wind, for sure.. but more importantly the death bunker to the left is the real one to avoid - that sucker is DEEP and can be a real stroke-play round ruiner.  Then the green... how do I love thee, let me count the ways....

TH

[Tim Bert]

Post deleted due to exchange in reply #55 - #57.  Please continue discussing hole #2.

[Tom Huckaby]

Whoops!  Sorry, did not see the previous suggestion.  And you make great points for keeping this to one thread.  I will say no one regretted having the Oakmont series as different threads, and in terms of hogging space, jeez compare this to the Merion stuff!  Methinks this has worth.

 

It will be difficult to retrieve in the future though, true.  But in reality how often does one go back and retrieve old threads?  And especially one like this that will be largely dependent on pictures, well... it's future worth only stays if you keep those pictures FOREVER in the same place... that is, they will be future red x's if you ever move them from where you have them now....

So my vote still goes for separate threads.  But I am inherently lazy.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

One thread.  It is easier to search for in the future if you want to review the course.  It also won't muck up any other worthy topics with 18 threads on the same page.  I don't know about you but my computer tells me if there has been a post added to a thread that I might have missed.

note:  This survey will destroy any chance you had at having a successful and interesting discussion.

[Tom Huckaby]

Though I disagree with John about the effect of multiple threads, he is right that discussing it here will ruin the otherwise great discussion of a great golf course.  So screw it, it's your idea, you make the call, Tim.

So... back to #2....

Has anyone else gotten in that left bunker?  If so, how did you manage to get out?  And is it maybe, just maybe, TOO severe - especially since the tempting play is to go left - better angle from there?

TH

[Tim Bert]

Tom - I'm not moving them unless PhotoBucket makes me!

I like John's point.  He agrees with me about mucking up the first page of the message board.  He also makes a wise point about turning this thread, which has had some good discussion so far, into a survey thread.

Request considered and denied.  We'll stay with one thread.

No more survey responses please.  There will be something everyone can love and hate about this thread before we're done!

[Phil McDade]

Tim:

I do know George did 18 separate threads on Oakmont, then did one thread afterewards that had links to every one of the 18 holes and their separate threads.

Either way is fine; I do like the idea of one thread for searching purposes in the future.

[Patrick Glynn]

One thread.

And I do believe this is the first time I have EVER agreed with anything John Kavanaugh has said...

[Wyatt Halliday]

Tom,

Oddly enough, my first encounter with #2 was on my first round at the resort, and also my first experience with the fescue surface.

After a shaky par on #1, I pushed a drive into the left bunker on 2. Upon arrival, my ball was eventually found to be under the FRONT lip, wedged between the sand and a large tuft of fescue. My best option was to drop in the bunker, which is exactly where my third shot remained. Not to bore, but blast, hack, putt, putt =7.

Without a doubt the most physically unusual lie I have ever seen, but a hysterical welcome to Pacific nonetheless.

WH

[John Kavanaugh]

I'd like to know the history of the dead tree in the centerline bunker before I decide if I hate it or not.  Leaning towards hate.

[Tom Huckaby]

Wyatt - I had a similar fate with multiple attempts required to get the ball out.  I believe my futility was caused by greed though... I could have pitched out with a SW at any point.  But hmmmm... it seems to me your fate - way worse than mine - and mine - SW required... well... that's a stern price to pay for a bunker one is tempted to flirt with to get the better line.  Is the smart play just to bail right and leave the blind approach?  And if so, doesn't that decrease the worth of this hole to some extent?

Note I am just ASKING - I really don't know.  I still think this is a maddening and GREAT golf hole.  I just wonder if it might be even greater if that left bunker wasn't so severe....

TH

[Kalen Braley]

I never got a good look at that left bunker on #2.  But if it really is a bitch that everyone makes it out to be, then I think it works perfectly.  And here's why.

To make a good score on that hole, and we'll assume that to be a birdie, its almost a must to approach the green from the left hand side.  Taking the safer line out to the right with a longer blind approach, ones chances are slim in making 3 from there. 

And there-in to me lies the brilliance of the hole. Go for the 3, risk a big number if you get in that left bunker or even the shoe bunker.  Play it safely out to the right and a bogey should be worst case scenario, however the birdie is very low probability.  The hole works for both risk averse players, and risk takers. 

As a kicker even though the fairway is pretty darn wide, this is a perfect example where being in the fairway can mean two completely different things in how well one can score.

[Will MacEwen]

Tom,

Oddly enough, my first encounter with #2 was on my first round at the resort, and also my first experience with the fescue surface.

After a shaky par on #1, I pushed a drive into the left bunker on 2. Upon arrival, my ball was eventually found to be under the FRONT lip, wedged between the sand and a large tuft of fescue. My best option was to drop in the bunker, which is exactly where my third shot remained. Not to bore, but blast, hack, putt, putt =7.

Without a doubt the most physically unusual lie I have ever seen, but a hysterical welcome to Pacific nonetheless.

WH

I had a ball embedded in the sodwall face of a fw bunker on BD #18.  The worst part was seeing it go in, and not bounce out.

[Tim Pitner]

Wyatt and Tom,

The left bunker on #2 is like a second home for me.  Out of the 8 or so times I've played Pacific, I must have been in there at least half the time.  For a right-hander like me, it takes a pretty wicked hook to wind up there.  I don't have any problem with the severity of the bunker.  It's a one-stroke penalty--appropriate, I think, for a short par 4 and a very poor drive. 

As for the tree near the center bunker, I never really noticed that before (probably because I've been buried in the left bunker).  I tend to agree with John--it's superfluous and removing it wouldn't bother me a bit. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim:

I guess you're right, that bunker works as is.  I just do believe the next time I play PD - and God willing I do get a next time, some day - I just punt and go right and accept the blind approach.  Man it didn't take that much of a hook for me to get in that bunker... the land kinda gathers into it.  And it is severe for sure, so in the end the gain in angle is not worth the risk.

I just continue to wonder if that's a good thing.

BUT... if that was a boring flat bunker we'd never talk about it, or worse, say it's out of place!  The bunker is what it is and at least looks like it's been there forever.  So in the end, trust Tom Doak.

 

[Tim Bert]

I think the hole is plenty wide enough for the repeat player to safely avoid it without a dreadful mistake off the tee.  For the one-time visitor, you may not know what you are getting into until it is too late, but that's why you find a good caddie the first time around - right Joe?

By the way, the truth will be revealed later in this thread if Joe was actually my caddie in 2005.  I've been doing some "research" over the years based on soundbites I've heard from Joe and I'm absolutely convinced he was my caddie before I knew he was part of this site.  Later on in the tour, there will be a photo of my caddie Joe and we can once and for all settle whether the great caddie I had is indeed GCA's very own Joe.

Tom - I say the way to play it is aim just right of the center bunker with an intent to play a fade for a lefty or a draw for a righty.  This takes the left bunker out of play unless you severely mishit it.  It brings the right side of the fairway in play in the event of a mistake swing, but it also still gives you the hope of getting the turbo boost behind the fairway bunker and ending up in position 1A.  If you don't have a left-handed fade or a right-handed draw in the bag, then play right and hope for a miracle par.

[Tim Pitner]

Tom,

You may be right--it might not require that poor of a shot to end up in the left bunker; it certainly is a gathering bunker.  For me, though, I usually try to aim over the center bunker and hope for a bit of a draw.  When taking that line, it takes a pretty poor shot to wind up in the left bunker (and sure enough, I have that shot in the bag). 

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim B. and Tim P. have given the proper play - well done, guys!

But what do you do in wind where clearing the center Shoe bunker is not a given?  That's more what I am talking about - aim left or aim right?

TH

[Tim Bert]

Clearing it has never been a certainty for me.  I aim slightly right of it, intend it to fade and carry, but live with a miss right and from there just see what happens.  At the end of the day, it is a pretty small bunker.  When the wind is up, I'm just as likely to land a little short and then the ball usually rolls a bit left of the bunker down the slope anyway.  Of course, the only time I landed in it was one time that I aimed directly at it instead of slightly to the side.  One of my most accurate drives ever!

[Tim Pitner]

From the green tees, it doesn't seem like the carry over the Shoe bunker is usually much of an issue, even in high winds.  From the back tees, it certainly is.  In that case, I'd say you're better off aiming right because of the presence of the left bunker and because the fairway slopes from right to left.  Of course, you're better off with some draw.  I've faced these conditions and it becomes an intimidating drive--one of the reasons I like the hole.  Sometimes, the carry is no issue at all; sometimes, it takes a heroic drive. 

[Kalen Braley]

How does the hole play in the prevailing winter wind?  Isn't it a quartering wind coming out of the left that is mostly helping?

I would guess a wind like that would make getting in that left bunker pretty difficult unless one hit just an awful shot.

[George Freeman]

If the wind is up and in your face and you're only expecting to hit it to the shoe bunker, would you rather be left or right of it?  I think right b/c you'd be up on that little plateau and atleast be able to see the flag vs down in the gulley to the left and have a completely blind shot...

opinions?

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim P - just to clarify - the bunker that troubles me is not the Shoe bunker, but rather the very deep one to the left.  And I do recall that clearing of the shoe bunker was definitely an issue for me... must have been playing the back tees and/or had wind in my face.  Thus the question for all - same as George's - assuming clearance is an issue, would you rather be left or right?  My assumption was left was better... but my memory isn't good... I thought right was completely blind, left would give you a view....

TH