[Mike Boehm]

Wow. And I don't mean to make light of Tom's skill as an architect.
But come on . . . Even I, a weekend hack with no design experience at all, can see an incredible golf hole right there . . .
talk about a great piece of property being a key to great golf . . .I have to say that I'm a little shocked that the land looked like that before any work was done. Seems almost too perfect . . .

-Ted

Ted - It sounds like Tom Doak would agree with you - he says as much in his statement about Pacific Dunes on their website: "I suspect that any golfer would have found some of the same holes, like the par-4 13th along the ocean, but it was an enormous responsibility to find the best possible routing on a site of such potential. "

13 is my favorite hole on my favorite course I've had the privelege to play.  Playing it was almost surreal to me.  After blowing a drive way right, having to fit that second shot between the dune and ocean was one of the scarier shots of the day to me.  I was fortunate enough to execute it, but I'm curious - has anyone in the DG hit it up onto the dune?  How difficult is that recovery - it looks about impossible?

Mike

[Tim Bert]

Mike,

Our group has played enough that we've seen some shots in the dune.  It's not fun, but it isn't quite as scary as it looks either.  Most of the shots over there tend to run back down into the lower bunker part of the dune, unless you get hung up on something in which case there's probably fair odds you will have some sort of unplayable lie.

[Richard Boult]

A couple sites I like to visit to view paintings and photography of Pacific Dunes are Joshua CF Smith and  Joann Dost.  Lots of good photos on flickr.com too. 

Here's some samples found of the 13th... another hole I find very intimidating both off the tee and on the approach. Even though there's plenty of room around the green, all I see is danger on the approach.

Painting by Joshua CF Smith



Photo by happyfuntimes at flickr.com



Photo by Joann Dost

[Jeff Doerr]

A few more for all to enjoy!

I've been the victim of the false front a few times, and my tee ball always seems to end up farther right than the line I intended.

It truly is a majestic hole.

[Tom_Doak]

Peter:  Nice photo.  I actually have a photo from the tee on the day Jim Urbina and I first "discovered" this hole, before the fire, with Jim standing in the fairway for scale.

The hole was indeed "all there" except for it was sandstone on the surface so we had to sand-cap the whole thing, and of course, we had to decide where to stop grassing and let the bunkers on the right remain exposed.

The fence that was just behind the tee which Peter crawled under was the property line for this parcel of ground, so none of holes 13 & 14 were on our topographic maps at all.  When I found out that David Kidd had used more of the southern end of "our" property than I had imagined, I was struggling to come up with a routing that stayed in the dunes ... we would have had to put more holes to the left of #15 at Pacific.  But then Mr. Keiser offered that he owned more land to the north and maybe we should go have a look at that! 

All of holes 15-12-3-4 was solid gorse at that time with no good path through it, so Jim and I drove around to Whiskey Run Road and hiked up over the dunes to come out by #14 tee and discover #13 just waiting for us.  That was the day I knew we were working on something beyond special.

[rjsimper]

With all the nice photos, I figured I should post a terrible one:

[Tom Huckaby]

What's that white stuff on the ground?  Bandon always has nothing but GREAT weather in February....

 

Just played with two Santa Teresa gents over the weekend who take an annual February trip and this was stated:

"we've gone three years now, never have broken out the rain gear."

I guess we're just hellaciously unlucky, huh Ryan?

But back to 13... not much more to be said that one of the world's great golf holes.  I think calling it "eye candy" if that is meant to denigrate is really taking this GCA coolness thing too far.  Eye candy means out of play - nothing I can see on any of these photos is even remotely close to out of play.

Wonderful hole, one to look forward to playing for sure.

TH

[David Botimer]

I've never understood comments like Nicklaus, who calls the 8th at Pebble the greatest 2nd shot par four in the world.  Huh?  Sounds like a par 3 stretched beyond its means.  One of the many great things about 13 at Pac is it is a PHENOMENAL 2 shot par 4.  There's nothing like standing on the tee with a "good breeze" in your face and telling a golfer "just left of the flag sir".  The inclination for a first timer is to look to the baleout right center in the fairway, and that is exactly where you don't want to be for your 2nd shot into the elevated green.  Move forward to the fairway, standing on the right side of the fairway, and then listen as they tell you, "boy, I'd sure like to be over on the left side of the fairway"!!

Last year I started telling my players that IMHO this is one of the ten best par fours in the world.  Not surprisingly, later last year I read on golf.com that Golf Magazine included it in their "Dream 18", one of ten par fours on the list.

This has exactly what a great par four requires, TWO perfectly executed shots to a green with many great pin placements requiring 1-2 great putts......all in a setting that is truly a dream, including one of the greatest greenside "bunkers" in the world.

[rjsimper]

My only questions on the hole are these:

1) Is there any advantage to being in the left half of the fairway over the right half?
2) The ridge that serves as a side-bumper on the left - natural or manmade?

[Brian Noser]

It is not fun putting with hail on the green.

It is also not an easy shot from atop the Dune...

[Tom_Doak]

Ryan:

1.  Yes, being on the left of the fairway means you don't have to approach over the bunkers, and you can pull your second shot a bit without going over the edge.

2.  The bowl in front of the green and the ridge along the left edge short of the green are natural.  The only change in the green area was to build up the left side of the green a bit, it fell off too quickly there.

[Tim Bert]

#14 is a par 3
145 from the black tee
128 from the green tee

This is the fourth of five 3s on the course that range from really good to world class.  There's not a bad one in the bunch.  The quality of the par 3s is so good that only upon further reflection does the golfer realize that this is the third par 3 in a five hole stretch. 

Although the 11th is also a short par 3 of similar yardage, these two holes play in the oppostie direction.  It is highly unlikely that one will use the same club on these two holes unless the wind is at its calmest.  In typical winds, the two holes will usually play at least two clubs different.  I've played a round where there was a 5-6 club difference (6I to #11 and SW to #14.)

The front pin position is particularly touchy in the summer wind because it is hard to land the ball in the proper position to leave a nice birdie putt.  Short of the green can be dangerous, particularly if combined with a slight miss left or right.  Left will leave you well below green level, with a touchy shot that will roll back to your feet if not placed safely on the green.  In a strong wind, all types of bunkers come into play on the right side that don't appear to be an issue at first glance.  I've seen more than one ball end up down closer to 13 than 14.  This hole is one of the best possibilities at birdie given the short club in hand.  It's also a realistic possibility to come away with 6 or worse if you don't strike that short club precisely.  I've witnessed 2s, 3s, 7s, and 8s in my time on this hole.

I have several different shots and angles from the tee, but I dont have a great photo of the green.  Contributors are welcom.

Views from the tee






A couple of views from down on #13




One view of the green (with some pretty good shots)


A haven for deer behind the tee (with a glimpse of some OMD land behind)






 

[Bob Jenkins]

Tim,

The word that comes to mind on the 14th is "execution". Just hit a simple short iron (usually) and hit it flush and you should have little problem. Centre of the green is your target, certainly nothing left as it will kick left and maybe into the bunker. Not a difficult hole but if you err in any way, you are often in big trouble.

I missed 13. Anyone who has played that hole will have it on their list of the greatest par 4s. No doubt. The tendency is certainly to see the open right side of the fairway but it does make for a much more difficult approach with those wild bunkers on the right.

This is one of those holes you just want to stand back and look at. Along with Pebble 8, this is right on top of my favourite and more particularly, the most memorable, challenging and unique par 4s anywhere.

[Pete_Pittock]

In either prevailing wind this is the most difficult par 3 out there, especially if the wind is 1 club+.
Hard to hold with a following wind, and you are in the shadow of the big dune. Winter winds gobble up the shot and the ball will usually funnel into the gutter bunkers. Give me a 3/4 shot under the wind and I will have a winning record.

[Joe Bentham]

we would have had to put more holes to the left of #15 at Pacific.  But then Mr. Keiser offered that he owned more land to the north and maybe we should go have a look at that! 

TomD
Would Pacific Dunes be a different golf course if you knew at the time you would also be building Old Macdonald?  Would you have saved some of the coast for Old Mac?  Why wasn't 7 green site @ Old Mac incorporated into Pacific (seems like a great place for the next tee after 13)?  Or did I just answer my own question?

[Joe Bentham]

What makes 14 tough is the change of pace it presents.  During the summer wind, holes 10-13 are hard against the wind.  Then you get to 14 tee and your down wind with a short club in your hand.  The golfer has spent the last four holes hitting full shots into a fierce wind and now he is asked to hit a short iron, down wind to a small target. 

[Steve Kline]

Great point Joe. While I haven't played PD I found the same thing at TOC the first time I played. The first seven holes I had grooved somewhat of a pull swing to counteract the 30 mph wind blowing into my face and left to right. Then when I got 12 I hit a massive pull with the wind at my back and right to left as it was the first hole where the wind was really different and strong. While Muirfield is always touted for a different wind direction on every hole a situation like the one at PD can be equally difficult.

[John Kavanaugh]

The 14th is a much more interesting hole given the new views of Old Macdonald.

[Kalen Braley]

I've long felt #14 was one of my favorite holes at PD.

Things to note:

- Those pics do not do those bunkers justice that surround the green.  They are very deep and very nasty, and getting in one of those could easily take a couple of shots just to get out.  I found myself riveted by them, even though I wanted no part of them. 

- In the prevailing summer wind, not only do you turn back downwind, but it offers a fabulous view of most of the course as well as much of the area that will be Old Mac.  A great preview of the remaining holes to be played is had and it gives you one last chance to take in the whole ocean-setting thing.

- It really does require an exacting short shot that you almost have to land short of the green to have any chance to stay on it.

[rjsimper]

I've only played the hole downwind once in the 8 times I've played it, and don't recall what it was like.  Can you please tell me how the hole plays downwind?  I've only ever hit 7 irons into it, and typically I end up in the left bunker or even left of that when the wind takes over.

[Tom Huckaby]

Hi.
My name is Tom, and I'm an ocean whore.
HI TOM!
It's been two hours since I praised a golf course and the views of the ocean was the first thing I mentioned.
APPLAUSE

With that as background, I shall give my thoughts on #14.

It is a stone bitch of a little golf hole.  I think it's pound for pound (make that yard for yard) among the toughest little bitches I have ever played.

I have played it many times and have yet to succeed.  

If on the green, I three-jack.  If off the green, well.. unless I am just short and in the right place, the shot is too tough for me and I just punt and aim to the largest area.  It is an infuriating and maddening little golf hole.

And for these reasons....

I love it.  I think it's better than #10 or #11.

This helps me at Ocean Whores Anonymous.  Oh sure, look to the right and one sees the briny blue.  But it's far from a dominant part of the view or the feel, as it is at #10 or #11.

TH

ps to Ryan - it's harder downwind - damn near nowhere to stop the ball - very very very tough shot - land on front of green and hope for the best.

[Kalen Braley]

Ryan,

The time I played, it was about 125'ish down wind.  So I choked down on a pitching wedge and hit a low 3/4 shot that landed ~ 5 yards short of the green and rolled to pin high.  My playing partners didn't have as much luck and ended up both left and right of the green.

I think also a part of what's going on is mind games being played with you as was discussed in the Pete Dye thread.  Your turning around after playing 4 straight holes into the wind.  You see a short little par 3 and shortish par 5 ahead of that and start to salivate over the possibilities. Then you realize after playing 14, thats its a tough little guy and is very demanding, so what you thought it was going to be, didn't turn out that way.  I'm sure some train wrecks have occured there with those bunkers. A subtle little trick but very effectivly done IMO.

[Michael Dugger]

Shots off target here are severly punished.  The greenside bunker left is total hell, super deep, I've seen many unplayable lies.  No room for backswing...

I personally have contributed to some serious pace of play issues with a shot gone wide right.  It's ridiculous down there. 

It's an exacting little hole.  Shouldn't be very hard.  I've birdied.  I've taken a six. 

[rjsimper]

I personally have contributed to some serious pace of play issues with a shot gone wide right.  It's ridiculous down there. 

Sounds familiar...

[Peter Pallotta]

Hi.
My name is Tom, and I'm an ocean whore.
HI TOM!
It's been two hours since I praised a golf course and the views of the ocean was the first thing I mentioned.
APPLAUSE

Hi Tom -

Thank you for your honesty. That took courage. You should feel good about yourself. The first step towards healing is admitting you have a problem. Now let me introduce you to your mentor - I'd like you to meet Tommy Naccarato...

 

Peter 

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()