[Rick Sides]

I've been looking into some modest private clubs in my area of NJ and noticed that most private clubs want some initiation fee; although some are waiving fees, then charge about 500 to 600 dollars a month by time you pay fees, food expense, and cart costs if there is no walking.  My two questions are: How can average people, like myself, sink 600 dollars a month just to be part of a private club? - and- does would I be better off playing a few upscale daily fee courses several times a month for less money?  Granted a private club has benefits, but 600 dollars a month for a modest private club sounds like a lot.

[Phil Benedict]

Rick,

Even at $125-150 per round, daily fee is almost always going to be more economical than the typical private club. particularly any club that has a pool, tennis courts, and restaurant.  Forty rounds at the low end of this range is $5k, which hardly scratches the surface of what it cost per annum to belong to a club.

The issue with daily fee is finding a group of compatible guys who want to play regularly and are willing to pay what, on the surface, looks really expensive, particularly compared to municipal or county options.

[Rick Sides]

Great point Phil.  I was thinking that daily fee offers you a wide variey, plus, if you get a coupon booklet, you can play some really nice courses for under $ 100.00.  I just can't believe that the lower end private clubs could cost $6,000 a year!  The one draw back is not having a group of guys to play with consistently.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

After looking at this from every angle over the past few years, I was finally given some sage advice from a friend of mine on this very topic:

"There is no rational economic reason to join a club (versus a daily-fee), you just have find a place you enjoy and view it as a gift to yourself."

[J Sadowsky]

One main advantage to a private club (as someone who plays daily fees and munis only), is pace of play.  To me, this is perhaps the biggest advantage private courses have over public ones.

Other advantages appear to include business and political connections, increased opportunities to play other private clubs, better personal relationships with the professional and staff, at most clubs full amenities for use by the whole family, potentially a tax writeoff(? I am not a tax lawyer), and the ability to squeeze in less than 18 holes without any net financial loss.

[Will MacEwen]

After looking at this from every angle over the past few years, I was finally given some sage advice from a friend of mine on this very topic:

"There is no rational economic reason to join a club (versus a daily-fee), you just have find a place you enjoy and view it as a gift to yourself."

What I like about belonging to a club is it removes the disincentive of cost.  This means I play in poor weather, half rounds, practice rounds, odd hours, etc.  If I had to pay for each of these rounds, I wouldn't.  The fact that it is already a sunk cost helps motivate me to play more golf.

[Phil Benedict]

I think you have to take the indirect costs of public golf into account, particularly length of round.  My experience with daily fee golf is that they do a better job policing pace of play than munies or county courses but not as good as private courses, where peer pressure comes into play.  Daily fee has an economic incentive to get as many players on the course as possible, regardless of how this affects pace of play.

[Dan Boerger]

As has been stated on this thread and many times before, joining a club makes no economic sense. But since I never saw a bank truck following a hearse, and I enjoy playing and practicing virtually anytime I want on a course I enjoy with people I enjoy, I'll continue to write out the checks!

[Garland Bayley]

Rick,

The answer is, move!

There are private clubs that charge approximately $150 a month for the whole family in the Portland Metro area. You wanted to see the great Pacific Northwest anyway didn't you?

Woops, forgot the food fee. OK $180 a month.

[Steve Kline]

Another advantage to private clubs is that the dues cover the whole family. I enjoy taking my 8 year old son out to play at my club. But, it would be hard to justify playing 4 or 5 holes at a time with him when having to pay for 9 holes each time we do that. Oh - and my club costs about $205 a month in Cincinnati. However, it is a testament to you get what you pay for.

[JohnV]

Rick,

The answer is, move!

There are private clubs that charge approximately $150 a month for the whole in the Portland Metro area. You wanted to see the great Pacific Northwest anyway didn't you?

Woops, forgot the food fee. OK $180 a month.

You don't even have to move that far.  Hannastown in Greensburg, PA (see My Home Course) is about $200 a month with no food minimums, although there is a $500 Utilization fee that must be spent annually on carts or guest fees.

[Jason Connor]

Another point of view that I've seen JK point out here.

Your $600 is not merely paying for you to play golf on the club course.

It's paying for other's not to play golf on the club course.

That isn't meant to sound snobby, but rather to point out that part of that cost is paying for a non-crowded course where it's easy to drop in and get a tee time, where rounds are quicker, etc.  There is and should be a cost associated with those amenities.

You just have to ask yourself if it's worth it to you.

[Dan Herrmann]

Another important factor is being able to get a game anytme, knowing 90% of the people on the course, having respect for the grounds, etc.

It's a dumb financial decision, but for quality of your non-work life, it can't be beat.

[Steve_Lovett]

Rick,

The answer is, move!

There are private clubs that charge approximately $150 a month for the whole in the Portland Metro area. You wanted to see the great Pacific Northwest anyway didn't you?

Woops, forgot the food fee. OK $180 a month.

Garland - which clubs are these?  I'm not familiar with private clubs in the northwest with monthly dues remotely this low.

[Rick Sides]

You guys all make great points and have given me a lot to consider.  I guess the difficulty I'm having is spending 600 bucks  a month on courses that are not even in the top 50 in the state.  I could understand if the courses blew me away and the minute I stepped off the 18th green, I wanted to run back to the first tee, but almost all the private courses in South Jersey cannot be touched for under 600 bucks a month - not including some excessive initiation fees by some.

[Garland Bayley]

Rick,

My primary example is Rock Creek. And, my information may be a little dated. They have done some building since I looked into it.

[Jim Sweeney]

I spend enough money playing golf every month to justify private club dues. But those $$$ include tournament fees and I probably play 4-5 different courses a month in season, many of them private clubs as a guest, and many on "upscale" daily fees. I belong to men's associations at three daily fees, so I play regularly with players of the same caliber, people who have become friends.

Some day (maybe sooner rather than later) I will join a club again. For now competition and variety satisfy my golf jones..

[Steve_Lovett]

Rick,

My primary example is Rock Creek. And, my information may be a little dated. They have done some building since I looked into it.

Garland -

I just checked out Rock Creek's website.  Seems they have a "Membership Special" which discounts their normal initiation of $4,000 to only $500.  

Admittedly, I haven't played Rock Creek - but from the Course Tour I would suggest that many (or most) public and most private courses in the Portland area are superior to it.

I doubt the Initiation and Monthly Dues at any other club in the Portland area (Waverly, Portland GC, Royal Oaks, Riverside, C-E, etc.) are in the same ballpark of price - and probably not quality.  

Best,

Steve

[Garland Bayley]

Steve,

He was looking into "modest" clubs. None on your list are what I would classify as "modest" in the Portland area. Instead, you have listed the "tony" clubs of the area.

[Steve_Lovett]

Steve,

He was looking into "modest" clubs. None on your list are what I would classify as "modest" in the Portland area. Instead, you have listed the "tony" clubs of the area.

Fair enough, Garland.  Good point - I missed the "modest" part of Rick's initial post.

What other clubs would you compare to Rock Creek in Portland - what do you consider the "modest" Private Clubs in town? 

Back to Rick's scenario...  If he has dinner with his family a couple/few nights a month at the club - and eats lunch now and then when he's there to play golf - he would run up a dining tab of maybe what, $300/month...?

Add that to his $250 dues and his total investment at the place would be close to $600/month...  Perhaps some of the investment in his club replaces money he might have otherwise spent eating out at other restaurants?  I'd say the majority of my monthly investment in my club exceeds my dues and golf expenses, in food & beverage.  At my club I doubt I'm unique in that regard.

Best,

Steve

[Garland Bayley]

Steve,

A man's gotta eat. You can't add in an every day recurring expense to the cost of the membership. His food allowance is what you add in. I looked at Riverside that you mentioned. There allowance is $125/quarter or $40 and change per month.

Modest clubs. Willamette Valley, Club Green Meadows, Orchard Hills, Arrowhead, Persimmon (off of the top of my head). I sent an email to Club Green Meadows to see what their fees are. Part of the reason I originally listed Rock Creek is because it is close in compared to these others.

I really wonder what membership at Persimmon costs. I would much rather play Rock Creek than Persimmon.

[Matt Varney]

With our economy spiraling downward could you all please tell me what is fair price for nice upscale daily fee golf?  I am curious because if you offer a nice member for a day experience to your guests at a price point in the $75 - $100 range I think you can be very successful.

What I have found is you can find cheap course to play but, the conditioning is just not that good quality and on the weekends the masses line up to play so rounds can take 5-6 hours.

[Tim Bert]

You guys all make great points and have given me a lot to consider.  I guess the difficulty I'm having is spending 600 bucks  a month on courses that are not even in the top 50 in the state.  I could understand if the courses blew me away and the minute I stepped off the 18th green, I wanted to run back to the first tee, but almost all the private courses in South Jersey cannot be touched for under 600 bucks a month - not including some excessive initiation fees by some.

If you don't really like the course and wouldn't be comfortable playing there every day, then it is a no-brainer to go public.  If you enjoy the course and don't think you'd grow tired of it (even if it isn't your dream course) then the decision could be about many other factors than money - assuming that you've got enough to comfortably afford the option you are considering.

The things that attracted me were ease of getting regular tee times, pace of play, ability to walk any time, and a lack of exciting public golf in the nearby area.  I will not ever be able to justify the decision on cost alone, but you know what I can't justify any golf trips on that basis either.  You have to agree internally that you won't dwell on it, or it definitely isn't worth it.

[Steve_Lovett]

Steve,

A man's gotta eat. You can't add in an every day recurring expense to the cost of the membership. His food allowance is what you add in. I looked at Riverside that you mentioned. There allowance is $125/quarter or $40 and change per month.

Modest clubs. Willamette Valley, Club Green Meadows, Orchard Hills, Arrowhead, Persimmon (off of the top of my head). I sent an email to Club Green Meadows to see what their fees are. Part of the reason I originally listed Rock Creek is because it is close in compared to these others.

I really wonder what membership at Persimmon costs. I would much rather play Rock Creek than Persimmon.

From what I hear, Persimmon is nearer the bottom echelon of Portland golf - Public or Private.  Is that a fair statement?

Portland is perhaps an anomoly in that there is excellent public-access golf at a reasonable price.  Unless one had the means of joining one of the better clubs in town, they may as well enjoy the benefits of the area's quality public courses.

[John Kavanaugh]

Don't forget the member/guests and club tournaments.  I have recently found that I am saving huge amounts of money on the range because my son loves to practice.  I just can't stomach $5 buckets off mats at the local slaughter house.

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