[George Pazin]

Is there anyone else who has almost no idea what is going on within the Merion threads?

I know the general gist of the initial queries, but the threads propagate so quickly I just don't have the time or energy to keep up. I doubt I've read more than a small handful of posts, let alone the many pages of the many threads.

Everyone seems angry with everyone else. It pains me to see people I know and respect under such duress.

Anyone involved is welcome to join me for a beer in you're ever in the Burgh - and so is anyone who hasn't even looked in.

Back to printing Pens t's....

 

[Dan Chapman]

I'm with you, I've only skimmed through a couple posts.

[R_Paulis]

No clue what's going on with the Merion thread.

Whenever I run across lengthy threads on any discussion board I pause and give thought whether its worth my time trying to follow the discussion.

Rarely does it get more of a passing glance for I find most of the debates devolve into personal attacks and appear to be ego driven.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

I have no idea, either. I looked over a few of the posts and saw the personal attacks and stopped right there.

Anthony

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm sick of the threads about the Merion threads.  I did come up with a grat tee shirt series...Too cute to kill.  It would show girls in various positions of bondage with a serial killer that just can't pull the trigger cause she is Too Cute To Kill.

[Bill Gayne]

I have no real clue. From the little I've read it's a pissing contest among the self important.

[Michael Dugger]

I do believe, gentlemen, the gist of the deal is some parties around here do not appreciate other parties questioning the history of Merion GC.

Whether Hugh Wilson really did "design" the course, or if C.B.Mac had some early involvement that may have been downplayed.  If so, the question begs why hasn't C.B. Mac been givin' his proper accolades.

And then they are fighting over what is the proper way to research something.

TE continues to bang on Macwood and Moriarty.....

You gotta remember Cirba is an attorney, so surely he knows how to wage an epic verbal war......

The fur is really flying over there......but at the end of the day it all boils down to questioning whether or not Hugh Wilson deserves sole design credit for Merion GC......

I'm with the lot of you....who really cares???

Sounds like another Bethpage/Tillie/Burbeck thing to me.


 

[Bart Bradley]

What threads?

Bart

[cary lichtenstein]

What threads?

Bart

I have no clue either, perhaps they should start a new thread, like the Superman comic which Kar el is born on Krypton, it is ready to explord, intoduce us to the Red Sun, Jor el, The Phantom Zone, Ma and Pa Kent, Jimmy Olson, Lois Lane, etc...that I would read

[Dan Kelly]

Is there anyone else who has almost no idea what is going on within the Merion threads?

I don't have almost no idea. I have no idea.

I became a "regular" at this board after reading a many-hundreds-of-posts thread about Merion's great white faces.

As President Bush put it: "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on you. Fool me ... you can't get fooled again."

[Gary Daughters]

Bravo, George.

In a roundabout way your post recalls a story Ringo Starr has told about trying to quit the Beatles.

Ringo said, and I paraphrase liberally..

I knocked on Paul's door and said ,Paul, I've become a spare tire.  You three are having all this fun, and then there's me.  And Paul said:  I thought it was you three.

I knocked on John's door ..  and John said:  I thought it was you three.

I knocked on George's door ...

[Bill_McBride]

I'm planning to attend the Walker Cup in 2009.  While I'm there, I plan to get to the bottom of all this kerfuffle.

If you think Merion is confusing, you should check out the Pensacola Country Club archives.     There's no clue who might have laid out the original nine holes in 1902, except it might have been a couple of members.  The second nine came along in 1925, and same thing!  Since Donald Ross designed the Country Club of Mobile around then and most likely traveled through Pensacola on the train line from Jacksonville to Mobile, I thought maybe the Donald had stopped off and offered some input into the original Ross-looking course, but Brad Klein, that expert, said, Oh no.

So there you are!

[Joe Bausch]

I'm planning to attend the Walker Cup in 2009.  While I'm there, I plan to get to the bottom of all this kerfuffle.

If you think Merion is confusing, you should check out the Pensacola Country Club archives.     There's no club who might have laid out the original nine holes in 1902, except it might have been a couple of members.  The second nine came along in 1925, and same thing!  Since Donald Ross designed the Country Club of Mobile around then and most likely traveled through Pensacola on the train line from Jacksonville to Mobile, I thought maybe the Donald had stopped off and offered some input into the original Ross-looking course, but Brad Klein, that expert, said, Oh no.

So there you are!

Bill,

Perhaps this article from the 1913 Montgomery Adverstiser might be of interest:

[Dan Herrmann]

Joe - you're evil

[John_Conley]

I did come up with a grat tee shirt series...Too cute to kill.  It would show girls in various positions of bondage with a serial killer that just can't pull the trigger cause she is Too Cute To Kill.

Who would wear one?  Besides you.

[John Keenan]

Add me to the no idea on Merion. I stopped looking at that one a long time ago.

John

[Brad Swanson]

I never looked at the threads or David's piece.  I frankly don't care about the history enough to spend that much time on it when I can't find the time to even play Joe Schmoe muni more than once a month or so.  Life's too short to get in a pissing match about that sort of stuff IMHO anyway.

Cheers,
Brad

[Mike_Cirba]

I have to admit having a few chuckles reading this thread.

Particularly when Michael Dugger mentioned that I'm a lawyer. 

I'll have to inform the PA Bar Association, as I've wanted to practice for some time now. 

The irony is that both Moriarty and Shivas ARE lawyers, and Patrick wants to be one, and they are the ONLY guys still arguing for a further elevation of Macdonald's role in the design of Merion, so you can take that information for what its worth. 

[TEPaul]

Interesting thread, and it basically completely proves why Wayne Morrison was probably right to hang his "final straw" thread on here the other day. Why should we even think about spending the time to do the legwork and the analysis of all these MCC archives and such and then write a comprehensive report from the club's meeting minutes archives to put it ON HERE if no one has the interest to take the time to read it and consider it?

I think Wayne is right, we'll do it and put it into Merion's archive for THEIR record and perhaps on the USGA's new Architecture Archive site. Maybe some "serious researcher" will want to see it in either place about once every ten years.

As for most on here it's probably better to go back to the type of thread that discusses in quick bites whether Erica Blasberg is the hottest little chicklet on the LPGA Tour this year. That seems to be about all most on here can handle these days. If about the only person we'd be doing this for is David Moriarty and his ramped up and new found curiosity about Macdonald or Merion or whatever, it's probably more appropriate if he does it himself, including coming over here and spending about ten years at it, as we have!

If you ask me there're probably less than a handful of really serious researchers on this website, whatever that means anyway. I've been on here from the beginning and it definitely is not the same as it once was---not even close. I guess it just proves that all good things do come to an end, and they probably need to, including GOLFCLUBATLAS.com.

[Michael Dugger]

I have to admit having a few chuckles reading this thread.

Particularly when Michael Dugger mentioned that I'm a lawyer. 

I'll have to inform the PA Bar Association, as I've wanted to practice for some time now. 

The irony is that both Moriarty and Shivas ARE lawyers, and Patrick wants to be one, and they are the ONLY guys still arguing for a further elevation of Macdonald's role in the design of Merion, so you can take that information for what its worth. 

I'm sorry, Mike, I thought wrong.  Why did I think you are an attorney?  Maybe I need a vacation somewhere sunny....

[Gary Daughters]

TEP,

Your post re-inforces something I was about to say.

Though most of us can't and don't necessarily care to follow the depths of the Merion discussions, good for you guys for being passionate.  To paraphrase a fellow poster, I could give a Rat's Ass if it's bloody.  "Terms of Endearment," a fine movie, is surely showing on cable.

It's funny to have to lump the two together, but the Merion threads are not unlike the reviled OT discussions.  Don't like it, don't take part.

[Steve Lang]

 

Curious George..  :<)) 

I've read most, but have to use my mental bandwidth for more practical vocational purposes.  It all reminds me of why i quit my college daze with only two science degrees, as that "pile higher & deeper" PHD type one gets too much into minutia, sometimes for minutia's sake or just because uncertainty cannot be eliminated, with the end result of the topic loosing practical value.  The Merion threads approach that level, unable to pierce the grayness of uncertainty surrounding hypothesis and evidence, and thus unable to elevate inductive reasoning to clear premise, conclusion, and deduction.

Tom Paul, you sound so disgusted, why not quit gca.com? 

I see gca.com as a forum for gca experience. 

It would appear that gca research has some elements of a sacred pursuit..  why would anyone think that "findings" are so absolute?

[Tony_Chapman]

If you ask me there're probably less than a handful of really serious researchers on this website, whatever that means anyway. I've been on here from the beginning and it definitely is not the same as it once was---not even close. I guess it just proves that all good things do come to an end, and they probably need to, including GOLFCLUBATLAS.com.

Tom -- Having met you at Wild Horse a couple of years ago, this little thought of yours bugs the heck out of me.

First, I don't know if anybody who posts on this board came here to partake in "really serious research" about a club history anyway. I sure as heck didn't. I came here to listen to guys like you talk about great architecture, because I grew up playing in old cornfields in Nebraska. Hell, the closest I can get to some of these great places is google maps for Pete's sake.

If you want my take, guys like you and Wayne and David have a special damn gift and passion to preserve and protect the history of these grand old clubs. Whether or not you spew it on here is none of my business. If you want to write a book, I'll buy the damn thing.

What irks me off is it makes you want to quit the place and keep some of us who really appreciate your knowledge about other great places in this world of golf to yourself. So, if talking about Merion boils your blood, then stop it. But, don't stop talking about other great Philly courses and the others you can chime in on.

[Scott Szabo]

If you ask me there're probably less than a handful of really serious researchers on this website, whatever that means anyway. I've been on here from the beginning and it definitely is not the same as it once was---not even close. I guess it just proves that all good things do come to an end, and they probably need to, including GOLFCLUBATLAS.com.

Tom -- Having met you at Wild Horse a couple of years ago, this little thought of yours bugs the heck out of me.

First, I don't know if anybody who posts on this board came here to partake in "really serious research" about a club history anyway. I sure as heck didn't. I came here to listen to guys like you talk about great architecture, because I grew up playing in old cornfields in Nebraska. Hell, the closest I can get to some of these great places is google maps for Pete's sake.

If you want my take, guys like you and Wayne and David have a special damn gift and passion to preserve and protect the history of these grand old clubs. Whether or not you spew it on here is none of my business. If you want to write a book, I'll buy the damn thing.

What irks me off is it makes you want to quit the place and keep some of us who really appreciate your knowledge about other great places in this world of golf to yourself. So, if talking about Merion boils your blood, then stop it. But, don't stop talking about other great Philly courses and the others you can chime in on.

Tony,

Well put.  I, too, haven't played many of the greats, so I sure enjoy the discussion on this board from those who have.  I don't have much to contribute often times, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy listening to those who do.

Scott

[Ted Kramer]

No clue . . .
I'm just sorry that people have to argue on a web site like this.
Disagreeing is one thing, difference of opinion discussed openly and respectfully is great for a site like this, but the arguements and venom in those threads are just way beyond anything that I'd care to be a part of.

And George, a beer sounds great . . .

-Ted

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