Leatherstocking G.C. = several excellent holes! (with photos!)

[Jay Flemma]

I hadn't been here since I was 8 or 9, but wow, there were some excellent holes.  2 and 7 are excellent uphill par-4s with terrific cross bunkers.  In fact the cross bunkers, green contours and tilts and par-5s were all excellent.  The par-5 4th hole was my favorite.  Great diagonal series of bunkers.  There were several great false fronts, (like 4 and 5).  I liked the "Short" at number 12.

I was disappointed only twice - 9 (a severely uphill and narrow par-3) and 14 a way to short and defenseless par 4.  The cross bunker was out of play even for me.  If they moved up the teeb box and built a swale, they could make it a Biarritz and turn some connective tissue into a great hole.

I also wish they'd cut down the trees behind 17 so we could see the lake, but the rest of the way was outstanding.

Are either 2 or 7 an Alps?  7 sure seems like it. 18 is a great finisher -  a cape hole with an Eden bunker behind the green and an open view of the lake and hotel.  Boy, Emmet sure knew how to build a great 18th hole!  Garden City and now this.  Wow.

I had a fantastic time - great architecture, a beautiful setting, some great history and a terrific architect.  We should have a GCA day here.

I'll post pics soon.

Questions...what do you all think of the drop shot short?  Are 2 or 7 an alps? 

Which nine was built in 1909 and which 9 was built in 1919?

[Jay Flemma]

Here's some photos:

The Short (12):



The Alps? (7) Over a big cross bunker uphill to a punchbowl green..."



Great cross bunkers at the par-5 fourth!



Look at this roll off at the fifth!

[John Sheehan]

Jay,
Those pictures are very interesting.  Thanks for posting.  Can you post any of the 17th and 18th holes?  I just looked the course up on the web and, never having heard of the course, much less played it, I'd be interested to see those two holes along the water.
Thanks,
John

[Jay Flemma]

Hi John, I have 17 and 18.  I think they outta cut the trees down on 17 and leave a clean backdrop to the water.  My photo on 18 shows what I think to be an eden bunker on a cape hole.

Big shout out to Cirba, who bumped an earlier thread.  How are ya, Mike?

Here's 18:

[Dan Boerger]

I play this course just about every year and share Jay's opinion on tree clearing on 17. I think the visual hazard of that hole would be far better with water behind the green. Also, 18 is a great tee shot, but only OK on the way in IMO.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Isn't there a beach right behind #17 green?

[Jay Flemma]

Dan, thanks for jumping in.  What do you think about my two questions:  that 7 is an alps hole and does 18 combine eden and cape?

Dan, when do you play LGC?  Would you like to meet up and play?  Should we get a bunch of GCAers to check it out?

[Dan Boerger]

Jay - I agree with you on #7. Really a fantastic hole. I'll have to think about #18. I think those rear bunkers are just too far back to come into play save for a severe back pin position.

I generally play the weekend of the charity wine Auction (mid Sept.), but may be there in August of this year. I'll drop a line!

[Jay Flemma]

excellent...we should try to get a bunch of us.

[John Sheehan]

Jay,
Thanks for posting those additional pictures - greatly appreciated. 

Do you happen to have any of the tee itself on 18, and one of the fairway from the tee?  Does the green jut out into the lake as it appears to in the picture you posted?

The more I look at this course, the more I am intrigued by it.  Looks to be both an incredibly natural and a very thoughtful design.  The movement of the land and the way he worked those features into the design is quite remarkable.

Thanks,
John

[Jay Flemma]

Hi John:

18 tee



and 18 fairway from the chocolate drop:

[John Sheehan]

Jay,
Thank you very much for posting those pictures.  Now I just need an excuse to get out that way. I have some friends in Bronxville I'm working on. 

[Noel Freeman]

[quote author=Jay Flemma link=topic=34714.msg698909#msg698909 ...

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Noel:

What is your problem? I've heard of an Eden Bunker. The original was not on the Eden Hole, but rather in the Garden of Eden. Man, pay attention.

Anthony

[Jay Flemma]

An Eden bunker, Noel, is the bunker behind the green that emulates the banks of the river eden.

[RJ_Daley]

Jay, I don't know how much this adds to your naming question on 7, but your photo give me the impression that it is the mirror image og the 8th hole at Blue Mounds which has the cross bunker still out in the FW, with about 90 yards to the green, up into a very punchbowl shaped green.  Your photo dipicts a high fortresslike wall on the right where as (you can't see the extent of slope in my photo, but) there is a large similar slope up to the green on Blue Mound's left green side. 
Blue Mound 8th, Punchbowl with cross FW bunker, not segmented like Leatherstocking.

[Jay Flemma]

Yor're right, here is a segmented bunker, not a single one, but Silva calls them Alps holes when he has a series and empties into a punchbowl...a la 4 at Black Rock.

[Doug Wright]

Jay thanks for posting these. I played this course a loooooooooonnnnggggg time ago as a teenager and for many years it was my most memorable golfing experience--17 and 18 are great finishing holes. In my Top 10 of "Courses I need to see again post GCA.com."

17 would be incredible with all the trees/foliage gone.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Jay, I don't know how much this adds to your naming question on 7, but your photo give me the impression that it is the mirror image og the 8th hole at Blue Mounds which has the cross bunker still out in the FW, with about 90 yards to the green, up into a very punchbowl shaped green.  Your photo dipicts a high fortresslike wall on the right where as (you can't see the extent of slope in my photo, but) there is a large similar slope up to the green on Blue Mound's left green side. 
Blue Mound 8th, Punchbowl with cross FW bunker, not segmented like Leatherstocking.

Another course/hole that would fair well to fell some trees.  Especially those pines behind this very green.

[Jay Flemma]

Doug, where do you live?  I go visit my family in syracuse occasionally...

Maybe we ought to have a GCA weekend up there.

Paging mark Chalfant - we're in your neck of the woods!

[Doug Wright]

Doug, where do you live?  I go visit my family in syracuse occasionally...

Jay,

A long way away (Denver CO). But I plan to visit Leatherstocking on a return trip to my alma mater (Hamilton College) in 2010.

[Jay Flemma]

Another NESCAC man!  I'm a proud bantam...our baseball team is national champions.  No perfect season (congrats to any hopkins grads), but a great year and school nevertheless.

Hamilton is a great school, but too close to my parents.  Ezra Pound was a Hamilton grad.  Who else?

[Bob Harris]

Hi John, I have 17 and 18.  I think they outta cut the trees down on 17 and leave a clean backdrop to the water.  My photo on 18 shows what I think to be an eden bunker on a cape hole.

Big shout out to Cirba, who bumped an earlier thread.  How are ya, Mike?

Here's 18:



Founds some pictures of 18 from a different point of view.

[Jay Flemma]

Nice shot.  You get both the tee and the green in there.  Great finishing hole.

[astavrides]

Jay,

Nice picture of you hitting your tee ball in reply #10 of this thread.  I thought it was Laura Davies at first the way both your heels are off the ground at impact.