[Rich Goodale]

Yannick,
I think that long fescue around bunkers works best when long fescue is found throughout the golf course, or golf hole! To me it doesn't look more natural to arbitrarily have long grass just around bunkers and basically nowhere else. That's what I mean.

Look at the pics in this pic. the fescue is more predominant, so it looks more natural around the bunkers. I'm not saying you need to have this much fescue, because members would complain, but this gives an idea of what i'm talking about.
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,34663.0.html

Matt

I couldn't agree with you more.  The fescue should tie into something else.  In the Mayacama the tie in is obvious, though I think they went overboard with the hair!


BTW In the above photo the layer of rough between the fairway and the bunker goes a long way toward ruining the entire look.  Its one layer too much.

I think the same thing is true of heather around bunkers.  The bunkers themselves are not intrinsically beautiful.  They should be placed to add strategic interest.  If it is possible to dress them up as if they belong then all the better.  Below is an example.


All the heather tie ins make sense for the centre bunker.

Ciao

Sean

I strongly agree with your main point--that bunkers should meld into their surroundings, mostly in terms of how they play (i.e. no intermediate rough) but also how they look ("tie in.").  However, that picture of yours from the heathland (Swinley?) does not do justice to the concept.  That bunker ties in far better to the trees in the distance than the heather/fescue in the foreground.

Come to think of it, heather is just a stupid tree that has stunted growth (faux Bonsai) and should be cryit doon.

Rich

[Sean_A]

Yannick,
I think that long fescue around bunkers works best when long fescue is found throughout the golf course, or golf hole! To me it doesn't look more natural to arbitrarily have long grass just around bunkers and basically nowhere else. That's what I mean.

Look at the pics in this pic. the fescue is more predominant, so it looks more natural around the bunkers. I'm not saying you need to have this much fescue, because members would complain, but this gives an idea of what i'm talking about.
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,34663.0.html

Matt

I couldn't agree with you more.  The fescue should tie into something else.  In the Mayacama the tie in is obvious, though I think they went overboard with the hair!


BTW In the above photo the layer of rough between the fairway and the bunker goes a long way toward ruining the entire look.  Its one layer too much.

I think the same thing is true of heather around bunkers.  The bunkers themselves are not intrinsically beautiful.  They should be placed to add strategic interest.  If it is possible to dress them up as if they belong then all the better.  Below is an example.


All the heather tie ins make sense for the centre bunker.

Ciao

Sean

I strongly agree with your main point--that bunkers should meld into their surroundings, mostly in terms of how they play (i.e. no intermediate rough) but also how they look ("tie in.").  However, that picture of yours from the heathland (Swinley?) does not do justice to the concept.  That bunker ties in far better to the trees in the distance than the heather/fescue in the foreground.

Come to think of it, heather is just a stupid tree that has stunted growth (faux Bonsai) and should be cryit doon.

Rich

Rich

I am not sure what you mean.  There is heather short of the bunker, around the bunker and off to the left of the bunker.  I admit the photo wasn't taken to show tie ins, but the concept is obviously demonstrated.  The thing that stands out is the naked bunker out on the right.  As I said, it is my experience that most heathland bunkers are rather tame - the heather hides their ugliness and makes them belong. 

Ciao

[Yannick Pilon]

Matt,

I totally agree with you.  There were many things that we suggested to the Club when we were preparing the bunker renovations.  One of them was to cut down some trees to open up some views between holes and to create different settings within the golf course, and the other was to massively introduce fescue zones or naturalized areas in these newly created open zones.

It took a lot of time for them to get to it, but the idea is slowly being implemented on site.  I was there again this morning, and they have cut a lot of trees and a huge naturalized area was created last fall and is growing in nicely between holes 9 and 18....

We should get toghether for a round or a beer, or both!

YP

[Neil_Crafter]

This is one of my bunkers at Glenelg in Adelaide - sod revetted faces but fairway cut right up to the front edge of the bunker and some fescues behind the bunker on the rough side. They are not allowed to get so thick that are either a slow play or lost ball problem. Works quite nicely and the mown edge allows running balls nice access to the sand! Like Jeff has suggested, the fescue on the green side of some of the greenside bunkers in Yannick's photos may be a little too much but I like the look of those bunkers Yannick.
cheers Neil

[John Sheehan]

They are not allowed to get so thick that are either a slow play or lost ball problem. Works quite nicely and the mown edge allows running balls nice access to the sand! Like Jeff has suggested, the fescue on the green side of some of the greenside bunkers in Yannick's photos may be a little too much but I like the look of those bunkers Yannick.
cheers Neil

Neil,
That is a great looking bunker.  To someone who doesn't have an inkling of how the maintenance side of golf keeping works, could you explain what is done to insure that, "They are not allowed to get so thick that are either a slow play or lost ball problem."
Thanks,
John

[Duane Sharpe]

Yannick
I can tell you from my experiences at Blackhawk, that the key was to:
A. Use poverty soils (no topsoil was used on any of our fescue faces_)
B. Seeding rate was cut in half from recommendations of 4-5 lbs/1000 sq. ft  to 1-2lbs/1000 sq ft.
C. Eliminate any irrigation water from hitting these areas.
D. Do not fertilize. We have not fertilized these areas for years now and have a nice whispy appearence
E. When lush spring growth appears as with any grass, trim with weed whips and pick up any grass clipping left behind that may create thatch. Thatch hinders finding your balls and also holds nutrients which aids in extra growth that you may not want.
F. Let mother nature do her thing, they may start out lush and thick but will thin and naturalize with time.

I am not a big fan of sodding these areas as sod is usually very thatchy and thick. This creates years of trying to fashion the certain look you were after. Seeding is always the best way to go.
(if you have the time!)

I love the look Yannick!  Please email if you want any pictures or advise on maintenance.
Sharpee
Blackhawk Golf Club
Edmonton, Alberta

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks John
Not too much water and an occasional haircut with a whipper-snipper. Our soil base is sand so pretty nutrient poor.
Duane said it all I think.
cheers Neil

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yannick,

I applaud your firm for implementing new techniques and bunker styles to your renovations and hopefully new designs.  While I've been a fan of your firm's green contours and playable golf courses your bunkers have, for the most part, been a major let down.  I say that understanding that quite often aggressive or challenging styles are dissmissed by golf course owners/developers and that in fact the ultimate product has a lot more to do with external influences than the talent of the design team.  Perhaps you could go back to Dakota Dunes and implement a similar strategy to the one above.  Keep up the good work.

Andrew

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