Fixing a serious issue?

[Peter Wagner]

I'm kicking an idea around in my head and I thought I would share it with you guys so you can show me where I'm wrong. 

One of the biggest reason for people quitting golf is that their scores don't improve.  They don't hit the ball better, they still miss putts, and they don't stay in bounds.  They get frustrated because they have the new equipment and Johnny Miller told them they were going to hammer it 300 yards on TV and yet the damn thing won't go 200.

I know many of you are already typing your response that golf is too expensive and if we just fix that then all will be okay.  I don't think so.  Golf is still a tough sport to learn regardless of price.

I believe that lessons are the key to this important problem.  In fact, I'm so into this solution that - here's the part where you may need to slap me - I'm thinking about making lessons free at my home course.

Some thoughts:
- average member of any private club quits after 7 years.  If I can extend that to 8 or 9 years then the clubs financials look mucho better-o.
- we have 3 teaching pros on staff and we're going to end up paying them the same amount either on a commission basis or salary under my plan.  No change to their income except that it would be more predictable on a salary basis. 
- there is a short term financial hit to the club as we wouldn't get the old lesson fees. 
- free group lessons and clinics in the mornings and sign up for free individual lessons in the afternoons.  Free lessons from when we open until we close.
- the goal is to build better golfers.  If you are hitting the ball better you tend to play more, which means you use your club more, which means you stay longer.

The risks to this plan are:
1.) Can we really make better and happier golfers through instruction?
2.) If we succeed, will they play more and stay longer thereby spending more in the process?

My plan is admittedly half-baked but I am worried that our sport suffers from lack of instruction.  I see some sort of plan along these lines as a way to fix this important issue.

Okay, now you can slap me.   
Best,
Peter

[jeffwarne]

The flaw in your plan is that the club is going to have to spend a lot of money to find three quality teaching professionals to  teach for free all day.

Anyone who can teach at all is used to getting $60-150 an hour.(and more per hour for group sessions)
Multiply that by 6-10 hours a day x 100 days in a season and you're looking at $150,000-$300,000 worth of lessons being given.
Someone who would teach all day for a salary of say $500-1000 a week would most definitely not be a good, qualified teacher-and a poor teacher will not stimulate interest,but rather the opposite

Someone's got to pay for all those lessons or the instruction won't be worth taking and defeat the purpose

[Peter Pallotta]

Peter -

for what it's worth, that seems to me like an excellent idea, and a nice bit of outside the box thinking.  

I think very few people will admit publicly (or even to themselves) that they're quitting the game or a club because they're tired of being poor golfers; they'll give many other reasons, but if I know my average golfer, the real reason is that they're embarrassed at not ever getting better.

Lessons will change that.

But - I don't think you should make the lessons free. Something tells me that when people get something for free, they start treating it that way, i.e. they treat it like it isn't worth anything. Make it just a little hard to get the lessons; make it a gift you're giving them, and make them appreciate it as a gift.  

Peter

[Andy Troeger]

Anyone who can teach at all is used to getting $60-150 an hour.(and more per hour for group sessions)
Multiply that by 6-10 hours a day x 100 days in a season and you're looking at $150,000-$300,000 worth of lessons being given.

I see what you're saying, but this sounds like part of the problem. It also reminds me why I haven't taken a lesson in years and just live with figuring out my issues myself. I don't play well enough to make the lessons worthwhile. This may be what Peter W. was alluding to originally, although I don't intend on quitting the game any time soon.

[RJ_Daley]

Well I will not slap you, but might shake your hand!  

I think you are into some creative thinking.  I'll say that cautioning that I have never been a member of a club, nor do I actually know the club scene like many of the GCA posters.  And so, the basic idea you have Peter may be an old one that has been tried before, but I don't personally know that it has, or the outcome if it has.  

It sounds like it might be a logistical or maybe more aptly put, courtesy or patience of members juggling problem in that perhaps (particularly in the beginning) everyone will want their lesson and compete for the pro staff's time.  That could cause rivalry or tension among the members as to who gets the most lesson attention.  Just a fleeting guess.

I'd also guess by the presumed demographics you have there that doing such a test run is more feasible due to the more finacially healthy aspect of your membership.  As you have pointed out above, there would be some short term hit that smaller clubs maybe couldn't afford.  And, it sounds like you have larger staff than many smaller clubs to have flexibility to do such things.

But, I think what appears to be the basic idea behind your proposal sounds very well motivated and perhaps creative and trend setting (if it hasn't actually been done before)

I think part of the lesson might be the opportunity to create a new club culture, that sets aside the card and pencil quest to shoot the lowest score and unrealistically constantly improve.  Hell, even Tiger at his level can only get fractionally better, and then one day will start the down hill slide, and he is a world class athlete.  For old coggers and typical club members to 'expect' that they will constantly improve and not go backwards when any and all pros do have peeks and valleys, that have realistic ceilings to what they can score, and more so greater depths to sink, it is fantasyland that is seems most golfers kid themselves into thinking they can beat the odds and only improve in score.  

But, to instill the love of the game, the thrill of the hope of 'trying' to improve, and the sporting mentality that can be more schooled in the lesson setting under the right coach-pro is a great opportunity that can totally change the character of the club, IMO.  So go for it man!

[David Stamm]

Peter, I need to think about the free lessons proposal, but I do think you bring up an issue that has been ongoing problem for quite some time. I think this ties in with some of the things that arch has experienced in conjuction with society as a whole. Let's face it, we live in an instant gratification world. We have become so busy between our jobs, families, etc that most, I think, find the thought of "working" to improve their games to be, well, too much work. If just a little effort was made to actually work on one's game, the benwfits would far outweigh what any club purchase could do for them, IMHO.

[Paul Saathoff]

I agree that if people learn the game the right way from the start they are likely to keep playing.  I started taking lessons from my local pro as soon as I got the itch to play, and I think without lessons I would have struggled for a couple years and quit like most people do.  Lessons for Jr players were pretty damn cheap at my home course (I think maybe 20 bucks for 45 minutes (this was 97-00) and free if I picked the range or cleaned carts or did whatever the pro didn't want to do that day.  

I think your suggestion would work better if aimed at Junior players.  I think you would find pros more willing to give "free" lessons to Juniors and it would also start young players off on the right foot that would hopefully stick with the game into adulthood.  Also, getting younger players involved would most likely draw parents to the game (or to participate more), which is the money spending demographic you are truly aiming for.
  
My old course (low end public in a town of 6500) used to have summer junior camps that cost next to nothing and drew many participants.  These camps produced some quality players that still play the course today and we had a few respectable HS golf teams.  Now the course has no pro, no special junior programs, a golf team that struggles to fill a roster and hasn't a player than can consistently break 45, and limited mens club activity as its core members are aging and younger replacements aren't filling the void.  Maybe this is mostly just a result of the poor economy of the area with factory jobs that once supported the area moving elsewhere (although similar towns nearby still have a decent population of players), or perhaps it speaks of the importance of a good club pro (or club owner) dedicated to growing the sport.

Sorry to go on a tangent there

[Tim Bert]

Peter - I don't think this is a bad idea at all if the course can afford the short-term revenue hit.  In particular, I think it is a great idea for juniors - say up to the age of 15 - if the membership is willing to make a significant investment in the future generation.

Unfortunately, I think this comes in at best at #3 for the reasons people are leaving, behind time and money.

I'm one that thinks the time factor is a bigger issue than the money issue.  It's certainly not cheap to play regularly, but there are still affordable options out there for most.  The problem is that it takes a lot of time (and it is taking more time than it used to) that people are willing to sacrifice.

If part of that lesson program could focus on ready golf, moving quickly, and reducing the time of the pre-shot routine, then I think you've found a double-whammy that could keep interest high at your course and others.

[David Stamm]

 
If part of that lesson program could focus on ready golf, moving quickly, and reducing the time of the pre-shot routine, then I think you've found a double-whammy that could keep interest high at your course and others.

Well said.

[Jim Thompson]

Peter,

Just start teaching your guys to get out to the range and chat it up a bit.  To sell it to them, pitch it as a chance to build a relationship with potential customers.  There was a time when that was SOP in the biz.  I think the toughest challenge is getting people to accept youngsters out on the course.  Maybe establish some guidelines for youngsters to set the stage for general acceptance by other players.  Tolerance is the thing limiting the game the most.  But who wants to here it from their peers for bringing the juniors out to play with them?  Unfortunately, you may have to make it cool for folks to be parents at the club again.

2 cents,

JT

[Peter Wagner]

The flaw in your plan is that the club is going to have to spend a lot of money to find three quality teaching professionals to  teach for free all day.

Anyone who can teach at all is used to getting $60-150 an hour.(and more per hour for group sessions)
Multiply that by 6-10 hours a day x 100 days in a season and you're looking at $150,000-$300,000 worth of lessons being given.
Someone who would teach all day for a salary of say $500-1000 a week would most definitely not be a good, qualified teacher-and a poor teacher will not stimulate interest,but rather the opposite

Someone's got to pay for all those lessons or the instruction won't be worth taking and defeat the purpose

Hi Jeff,

Sorry I skipped an important part of this plan.  We already have 3 good teaching pros and if I were to guess I'd say they each average making about $50k per year on a commission based plan.  What I am suggesting is that we put them on salary only, they will no longer be paid for the lessons they teach.  $50k period.

Their week will be 40 hours of teaching.  It's still $50k per year. 

I want to break the age-old compensation plan for teaching pros.  It's not working effectively any more. Very few players are getting better.   Flat salary is what I'm suggesting.

So the short term burden to our club would be $50k x 3 and I would be hopefully offsetting some of this in the same year with additional revenue from increased play and related expenses.  Add to that the hoped for extra year or two of club membership (years 8 and 9) and then it pencils out.

- Peter

[Peter Wagner]

But - I don't think you should make the lessons free. Something tells me that when people get something for free, they start treating it that way, i.e. they treat it like it isn't worth anything. Make it just a little hard to get the lessons; make it a gift you're giving them, and make them appreciate it as a gift.  

Peter

Peter P,
Hmmm, good point about giving it away.  Maybe you get a coupon book as a club gift?  I'll have to think about that.  One of the things I was looking for was that after your round you might report back to the practice area to work with your new teacher on the things that didn't go well.  Informal because the instructors would ALWAYS be on the range.

But still a good point.  Giving it away diminishes the value.

Andy,
See that?  You're the guy I'm after with this plan!  If an instructor can help you shave a few strokes from your handicap I'm betting you would play more golf.

Best,
Peter

- Peter W

[Peter Wagner]

I think part of the lesson might be the opportunity to create a new club culture, that sets aside the card and pencil quest to shoot the lowest score and unrealistically constantly improve.  Hell, even Tiger at his level can only get fractionally better, and then one day will start the down hill slide, and he is a world class athlete.  For old coggers and typical club members to 'expect' that they will constantly improve and not go backwards when any and all pros do have peeks and valleys, that have realistic ceilings to what they can score, and more so greater depths to sink, it is fantasyland that is seems most golfers kid themselves into thinking they can beat the odds and only improve in score.  

But, to instill the love of the game, the thrill of the hope of 'trying' to improve, and the sporting mentality that can be more schooled in the lesson setting under the right coach-pro is a great opportunity that can totally change the character of the club, IMO.  So go for it man!

RJ,
Yes and you said it better than I could have.  Part of the instruction includes course behavior and rules.  While we're at  it maybe toss in a little passion for the game.  How about listening to a 1957 story about Ken Venturi at the end of the lesson?  Did ya hear the one about Jack and Arnie.... 

I see these instructors as teaching ambassadors of the club.  I want my members to have fun and become better players.

Paul,
I hear you about junior players but really it's the adults that I believe need the help.  I would target Dad first, then Mom, and then the kids.  If Dad isn't breaking 110 it's only a question of when he quits the game.  If we can get him to 95 then he stays and we get to suck the whole family into my devious plot.  (Insert evil laugh).

Tim,
GREAT point about teaching 'ready golf'!  I hadn't thought of that.  Okay, how about this:  if you play your round in 4 hours or less you get another free lesson coupon.

Jim,
Yep I see these instructors parked on the range working with members all day.  Maybe it's just a 5 minute tune-up "Hey I noticed something in your swing... try this".  Maybe it's a 20 minute lesson or maybe it's a clinic. 

Best,
Peter

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I like the idea of encouraging people to take lessons by offering them free tuiton as a gift voucher.

It's difficult to know wether the recipient would appreciate the gesture of his buddies clubbing together to buy him a birthday present of a golf lesson - a sort of smug joke?

How about the last three in the club competition getting a lesson voucher? The losers are the winners, the needy people get the lessons, the bad golfers enter the competitions so they can come last - they may even hang around for the prize giving!!

[cary lichtenstein]

I think it is a wonderful idea.

I used to live in Chicago and one summer, I took Thursday's off. I had a regular game after lunch, so I took 1 lesson, about 90 minutes every Thursday only on odd ball shots, mostly the short game.

We had an old hole that was used as the driving range with a green well trapped and very narrow fairway.

Me and the pro would just challenge each other with alternate shots, and if I didn't know a shot, he'd teach me.

I loved my Thursdays

[Will E]

One of the biggest reason for people quitting golf is that their scores don't improve. 


1.) Can we really make better and happier golfers through instruction?
2.) If we succeed, will they play more and stay longer thereby spending more in the process?

My plan is admittedly half-baked but I am worried that our sport suffers from lack of instruction.  I see some sort of plan along these lines as a way to fix this important issue.

Do you really think that lower scores equal happiness? If that were the case wouldn't then pro golfers would be the happiest people in the world.
Traditional Golf Instruction, the "golf doctor" approach; that something is wrong with you and the Dr. can fix it has proven not to work. Handicaps haven't gotten any lower, people aren't any happier, yet from your post it looks like you think by repeating this process and expanding it you might get a different result. I'll bet it won't work.

So....what's my solution?
Change the culture of the club.
Create an environment where the passion for golf is alive. If your members could love golf as much as my friend Dick Daley, you wouldn't have enough tee times available. He's one of my favorite people to play with, not because of what he shoots, but because of who he is.
Create a culture where lessons are about discovery and learning, creating awareness, coaching rather than fixing.
Hire teaching pros that love golf.
Hang out for a few days with Fred Shoemaker and read his books.

Got to go, I'm on the tee.

[D_Malley]

peter
very interesting idea.  I am a teahing pro and one of the hardest things to get through to people who are taking lessons is that the lesson is only one part of their road to improvement.  it must be combined with alot of range practice.  to just take lots of lessons can often cause more harm than good.

periodic lessons combined with frequent practice is the formula for sucess.

you learn to play good golf by hitting balls, lots of them, lessons give you something to think about while hitting balls.  i often see the problem of too many lessons with not near enough practice.

[jeffwarne]

The flaw in your plan is that the club is going to have to spend a lot of money to find three quality teaching professionals to  teach for free all day.

Anyone who can teach at all is used to getting $60-150 an hour.(and more per hour for group sessions)
Multiply that by 6-10 hours a day x 100 days in a season and you're looking at $150,000-$300,000 worth of lessons being given.
Someone who would teach all day for a salary of say $500-1000 a week would most definitely not be a good, qualified teacher-and a poor teacher will not stimulate interest,but rather the opposite

Someone's got to pay for all those lessons or the instruction won't be worth taking and defeat the purpose

Hi Jeff,

Sorry I skipped an important part of this plan.  We already have 3 good teaching pros and if I were to guess I'd say they each average making about $50k per year on a commission based plan.  What I am suggesting is that we put them on salary only, they will no longer be paid for the lessons they teach.  $50k period.

Their week will be 40 hours of teaching.  It's still $50k per year. 

I want to break the age-old compensation plan for teaching pros.  It's not working effectively any more. Very few players are getting better.   Flat salary is what I'm suggesting.

So the short term burden to our club would be $50k x 3 and I would be hopefully offsetting some of this in the same year with additional revenue from increased play and related expenses.  Add to that the hoped for extra year or two of club membership (years 8 and 9) and then it pencils out.

- Peter

Peter,
I think Wellender has some of your answers.

While in spirit your idea has some merit (promoting the game)....
If you think   for a second that 40 hours of actual teaching is the same as what most pros currently do and as mentally taxing,...well then you've never stood in the sun and passionately and patiently tried to help individuals improve, acting as a disciplinarian, psychiatrist, babysitter, coach, motivational speaker.
It takes WAAAY more energy than ordinary pro staff duties such as checking in customers etc. and someone good,talented. and energetic enough to generate 40 hours per week of actual teaching is going to go somewhere he can make at least double that (and probably in half as many months)

Additionally, when lessons are free, the students have no "skin in the game", and may be very unlikely to make a committment to do what needs to be done to improve.
Additionally, many parents would see it as free, or "prepaid", babysitting and would drop unwilling kids on your doorstep.

Alternative, rather than a commission based plan, why not have those same three pros be paid no salary and work for 100% of their lessons.
Good pros know the benefits of customer service and growing the game.
There would be many free lessons given in promotion of their services and the pros would have the energy and motivation to teach way past 40 hours when weather, demand , coincide.

A flat salary is a disincentive to both staff and members, and rest assured certain members would bully their way into monopolizing the pros time and the pros would have no financial incentive to retain their passion and energy required for effective teaching.

Racetrack George brings up another critical point-many students would simply take free lessons and not practice, but rather make the lessons supervised practice (nothing wrong with that but it could be to the detriment of others waiting their turn to take lessons)
I already see this among the super rich (in that $175 lessons are virtually free to them) and they refuse to practice without a pro watching and never learn good practice habits or how to function without supervision)

Besides I'd be ticked off if I were a member who took no lessons and was subsidizing a guy who took 3-4 weekly.
Not a big fan of socialism as you can see.

[John Kavanaugh]

Peter,

It is a perfect idea for the demographic of your club.  I'm sick of playing with people, and listening to them on this site, who bitch about how they suck when the solution is as simple as a few lessons and some hard work.  Once ten guys use your program and show progress you will have twenty and so on and so on.   I have never met a golfer outside this web site who is not interested in either shooting better scores or beating their friends out of a buck.

[John Kavanaugh]

What I really like about this idea is the possiblity of a 5 minute tune up lesson without feeling like you are stealing from the pro's time.  It is a clouded issue knowing when friendly advice turns into paid expertise.

[Adam Clayman]

Can one teach someone how to be a sportsman? To overcome adversity? Human nature is a fickle beast. A tug of war between challenging one's character and appeasing their egos.
 If there's one obvious, it's golf is not for everyone. Nor should it be. Golf cannot satisfy both en masse.
 The cycle that stated in the early 80's has run it's course. The fact that a mega-industry was created and costs have exceeded any index in growth, is no guarantee of future performance.

My suggestion would be to look for longer term solutions. Involving kids through caddy programs and having weekly, low cost, tournaments geared to the different levels of existing golfers.

 

[jeffwarne]

Well said Adam.
The ills of an industry will not be cured thru free lessons-or free anything.

As Wellender said, if better golf made people happy, the lower handicappers would be the happiest-far from the case.

[Rich Goodale]

I would posit that the real problems are that:

1.  Golf is an extremely difficult game
2.  Once you improve to any sort of level, getting to the next level is much harder, and the level after that harder still, etc. etc.
3.  Even players who are serious about their games are going to find it extremely difficult to improve without spending inordinate amounts of time practicing.
4.  Most of us do not have the time, much less the motivation, given 1. and 2. above which tell us that no matter how much we seem to improve, we still suck, and will always suck (recognising, of course that "suck" means different things to different people).

Pros seem to make their money from the people who do not really understand 1-4 above.  A pro I know well calls them his cash cows.  They buy all the new equipment and come back regularly to try to find the swing thoughts that they have forgotten in the heat of battle.  They are, however, contented cows who seem to relish in the relentless but Sisyphean struggle to reach their goal.

Most of us, however, recognise (either implicitly or explcitly) that once we are of a certain age (25+?) and of a certain level of experience, we will never really get much better until we get so old that we will inevitably decline.  How many mature golfers do we know who have made a quantum leap in skill, say 15 to 8 (handicap, not index), or 8 to 5, or 5 to 2, or 2 to Scratch?  I have known a lot of mature golfers, over 35 years of playing relatively seriously, and I can count those who have improved that much on one hand.

So....I LOVE this salaried pro idea, for a lot of reasons.

1.  everybody in the club gets to benefit from the pro's expertise
2.  the pro can develop significant relationships with far more people
3.  the players will be able to get advice if and when they need it, without having to book a time by when the problem might have gone away

I'm envisaging a world where instead of either manning the counter or giving lessons, the pros are out in the "community:"  chatting on the putting green; offerring observations and advice on the short game area; loitering on the range with the intent of spotting flawas and answering qeustions; roving the course to see how players are actually playing.

I for one would be happy to pay a good salary through my dues if my pros were doing this rather than what they do know.  And, it might even help my fragile game.........

[jeffwarne]

).

.



I'm envisaging a world where instead of either manning the counter or giving lessons, the pros are out in the "community:"  chatting on the putting green; offerring observations and advice on the short game area; loitering on the range with the intent of spotting flawas and answering qeustions; roving the course to see how players are actually playing.

I for one would be happy to pay a good salary through my dues if my pros were doing this rather than what they do know.  And, it might even help my fragile game.........

If you're pros aren't doing the above already, your club is already doing something wrong.
However, if you cut him off from the "cash cows" you describe, you better be prepared to make it a fat salary.

[Peter Pallotta]

Rich, Adam -

very nicely done, gents. The long and the short of it as it were. Yes, a Sisyphean Tug of War.  But perhaps, with the sun shining warm on his face and the breeze cooling the sweat of his brow, we can imagine Sisyphus happy...at least until he tees it up

Peter