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J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2008, 07:27:11 PM »
#3 at MPCC Shore was a very nice drop shot hole. If memory serves me it was roughly 150 yds to a well bunkered green. Good use of the terrain to lead the course down to the Shore holes.

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2008, 07:50:31 PM »
I like that Waterfalls GC joint Garland posted a link to a while back.

Like every hole on the front nine had you blasting down the side of a mountain.

Looked brutal but fun maybe like once......

What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Doug Ralston

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2008, 08:11:07 PM »
I like that Waterfalls GC joint Garland posted a link to a while back.

Like every hole on the front nine had you blasting down the side of a mountain.

Looked brutal but fun maybe like once......



Twas I.

Doug

Steve Verde

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2008, 08:47:53 PM »
What is the definition of a drop-shot hole?

I would certainly consider #6 at Merion West a drop-shot but I would not consider #4 at Banff to be a drop-shot.  I don't know how far the tips are on that hole but I know that I played it at at least 180 yards.  I think this should be too long of a hole to qualify as a drop-shot

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2008, 09:25:35 PM »
#11 at Palmetto is a very good drop hole of about 170 yards.  It's over 100 foot drop from tee to a well-contoured green. 

I think drop-holes do often get a bad reputation.  They can be a fun shot to play yet extremely challenging, especially to a well-protected green, as distance control is very difficult.  The wind also can really wreak havoc when there is such an elevation change.

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2008, 09:53:30 PM »
The Golden Horseshoe gold course has three good drop shot par threes. What really distinguishes a drop shot par three from any other drop shot par three? What makes it bad, good, or great?

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2008, 01:19:39 AM »
7th at Pebble Beach

3rd at Spyglass

6th at Torrey Pines North

11th at Sandpiper

4th at Palos Verdes

15th at San Clemente.

14th at Pajaro Valley

3rd at MPCC Shore

18th at Pasatiempo (small drop)
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Matt Varney

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2008, 01:30:28 AM »
Justin,

I remember playing #4 at Laurel Hill you have any pictures you could send me and I also would love to see a picture of the famous drop hole that is great at Avenel.  I was up in NVA recently visiting family and playing in a tournament at Lansdowne.

I have a project that we are working on that could have 2 really nice drop holes one maybe 170 yards and the other could be 215 yards from the tips over a ravine filled with trees and a creek that has the midsize elongated green site sitting tucked into a hillside above a huge bouldered bulkhead wall with some great bunkering.  It is all risk and requires precision but, it might be just too hard for some playing the tips.  The drop area would be on the other side of the ravine and would allow for about a 100 yard flip for your 3rd shot after your penalty stroke.

John Sheehan

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2008, 02:53:03 AM »
All of you Olympic Club players:  I haven't played there in a long time. 

What is/was the drop hole on Ocean Course? 

Is it still there?  I seem to recall that it was on the back nine (maybe #15 or #16? - my memory is not what it used to be) and had a very, very dramatic drop in elevation from tee to green.  The ball seemed to hang in the air f-o-r-e-v-e-r...


Kyle Harris

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2008, 07:02:53 AM »
There is a good pic of the drop shot hole at Merion West on Sean Arble's photo tour of that course, back on page 3 or so. I hope he doesn't mind if I "quote" it here:




Gerry B

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2008, 03:04:40 AM »
john sheehan:

i listed the hole earlier - it is on the front 9 - maybe 5 or 6

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2008, 10:09:48 AM »
Here are the photos of some of the ones I mentioned.

Banff Springs - Looking back this hole doesn't look like too much of a drop, but it is steeper than it looks.  It isn't as severe as a bunch of these 100-200 drop holes, but it is still significant.



Here's the view from the tee



Here's the drop shot at Fox Hopyard



Here's the one at Sugarloaf




John Sheehan

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2008, 11:46:28 AM »
Posted by: Gerry B  Posted on: Today at 02:04:40 am 
 
john sheehan:

i listed the hole earlier - it is on the front 9 - maybe 5 or 6 

Gerry,
Don't know how I missed that.  Probably the same way I missed guessing even which nine it is on.  My memory is getting to be just that... ;)

Matt Varney

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2008, 12:52:09 PM »
Guys,

These are some nice photos of great examples when I think of a drop-shot hole.  Does anyone else have other pics they can post?  I would love to see more like these and if you all have the yardages on these holes that would be great.

Matt

Cory Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2008, 05:16:33 PM »
#11 at Castle Pines Golf Club is a great one.  About 200 yards from the back tees and you hit a 9-iron or a wedge.  There is a dry creek in front with a steep drop off in the front of the green.  It also has a deep intimidating bunker left.

Doug Ralston

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2008, 07:30:29 PM »
<a href="http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yatesville143large1rv91mx0.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.imageshack.us/thumbnail.png" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" border="0"/></a>

Fun hole. 325yd par-4. Drop 240ft.

Unfortunately, I just today have tried to learn 'imageshack'. Can someone show me how to make this image full page like yours?

Doug

Doug Ralston

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2008, 07:41:50 PM »
Damn, this time even the thumbnail image didnt show. I think I do not know what I am doing here .... *sigh*

doug

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2008, 07:56:15 PM »
#11 at Castle Pines Golf Club is a great one.  About 200 yards from the back tees and you hit a 9-iron or a wedge.  There is a dry creek in front with a steep drop off in the front of the green.  It also has a deep intimidating bunker left.

Cory,

I believe the bunker you are speaking of on #11 is on the right side of the green rather than the left.  I walked with a group during one particular International and the wind was gusting and guys were trying to knock down 4 and 5 irons into that hole.  We had balls in the creek, in the trees, long, etc.  It's a good thing it wasn't a stroke play event that day ;D

Another course here in Colorado that has two drop-shot holes is Marianna Butte in Loveland.  Holes #11 and #14 go in opposite directions from the top of a small mountain, with #11 playing about 180 with the Poudre River running along the back of the green and it is a beautiful hole indeed.  #14 is about 110 yards (playing like about 80) but is nowhere near the hole that #11 is.

Scott
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2008, 12:31:26 AM »
I'm probably one of the most vocal against drop shot holes on GCA, but my problem is not so much with the concept of the drop shot hole, I have no trouble thinking of good examples.  They are just WAY overused.  I talk about the "obligatory drop shot par 3" because there is always at least one on every new course, unless it is built on land with no elevation change -- and I'll bet there is sometimes a lot of earth moved on flat sites to create one!  Go ahead, think of a course built in the last 15 years on land with >50 feet of elevation change that does not have a drop shot par 3....I'll bet the list even this group could compile would be pretty short!

It just shows a singular lack of imagination by the architect unless that particular incarnation of the drop shot par 3 shows me something new and original.  I don't buy the "the land presented the hole to me" argument either.  Why not pull the tees back another 200 yards and make it a drop shot par 4, where shorter hitters will struggle to get the ball far enough to have a good look at the green, and longer hitters will struggle with the decision to lay up for the flat lie and a full short iron versus trying to hit it as far down the hill as possible and hitting a half wedge off a steep downhill lie?  Or do it as a par 5 (maybe fear of liability issues, though I can think of a couple good ones in fairly recent designs)

If I hear about a new course and it having a signature hole that's a drop shot par 3, I automatically down-rate it in my mind.  Its possible I'll change my mind after playing it, but I'm less likely to play it that first time to give it a chance and it has to impress me more to change my mind because I'm automatically a bit biased against it before I start.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2008, 01:04:46 AM »
I like the odd drop shot holes because yardage guides aren't tremendously useful. Add wind and it takes someone who knows their game to hit the right club/shot. Like anything, there are severe and less so; I'm partial to those that aren't so severe, but at Falkenstein near Hamburg they have a pretty good one. I think it'd be rated slightly towards the severe end (blowing my theory all to hell).

At Rya near Helsingborg, Sweden they have a drop shot playing towards the sea. Used to be the 16th. With the wind howling picking the right club/shot was a lot of fun.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2008, 01:39:09 AM »
Like I said, with some variety to distinguish it from the formula drop shot it can be a good hole, playing one down to the sea would qualify.

If they truly want to call it testing one's club selection and shotmaking where yardages are less helpful, let's see more of them allow a generous area in front to play a lower shot and run the ball on the green, instead of fronting it with water, sand or gunk as is all too often the case?  A course in town here has a very steep drop shot par 3 that allows a run up, but will kick the ball off to the side if you miss the area by too much so it isn't a makeup area for a poorly played shot)  It has water behind the green so players who do not make use of the ability to run the ball onto the green do so at their peril when there is a strong following wind!

If architects were really serious about testing club selection through elevation change we might see more steeply uphill par 3s, but the courses that overuse the drop shot par 3 generally play as many shots as possible downhill, and choose their routing carefully so that almost all green to tee transitions go uphill.  I'd almost say that having the large majority of your green to tee transitions going steeply uphill is almost a guaranteed mark of a crappy course, because it is clear that the desire to have as many downhill shots as possible was the main criteria for routing, instead of finding the best or most interesting holes.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Paul Saathoff

Re: The Drop-shot Hole
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2008, 03:17:32 AM »
I just played the Norman Course at Mission Hills in China.  The 15th was a HUGE drop shot off the tee.  Excited about the possibility of blasting a huge drive downhill, I pulled the driver not noticing the hole was only 330 or so and proceded to loose my ball in the deep rough surrounding the narrow approach to the green.  Who wants to hit a sissy lay up on such a huge downhill tee shot?  No thanks!  Haha.  But the course was great, especially the back 9! 

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