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Matt Varney

The Honors Course
« on: May 14, 2008, 09:19:21 PM »
I had an opportunity to play yesterday as a guest of a member at The Honors Course.  It was a perfect spring day sunny with very little wind and the experience was magical walking the course with our caddies.  If you ever get a chance to play this exclusive Pete Dye course you better clear your schedule it is one of the best golfing experiences you will ever have playing.

K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2008, 09:28:57 PM »
Matt...

What were your favorite things about The Honors?  Favorite holes?

I agree it is an awesome place.

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2008, 09:29:52 PM »
Matt,
           I would echo your sentiments. I had the opportunity to play here last October. The natural beauty in addition to a great routing was just a few reasons why I consider this club to be in my top 5. This is the ultimate in seclusion-great facilities on which to stay-I didn't ,but it didn't lessen the experience. We had a packed weekend of golf that I will always remember. Our host in addition to be one hell of a player(I'm not) was just a hoot to spend time with. I hope to return the favor this summer. Probably one of the hardest entrances to find in golf! Like trying to find the Batman cave. ;D

Matt Varney

Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2008, 09:50:54 PM »
Kyle,

I live in Knoxville, Tennessee and for 15 years I have been waiting to play The Honors without begging a member to play (I wanted to earn the invitation).   From the time you enter the gate it is like you have crossed over into a world of private seclusion and perfect golf without any distractions.  The service is first class you are treated like a member even if your a guest and it is so laid back and relaxed having lunch on the veranda sipping iced tea so you can just enjoy the complete golf experience.

We walked our caddies were the best I have ever had and when they gave you a number you pulled the club and fired at the flag because you could trust every word they told you on how to play each hole and putt the greens with confidence.   It is hard to say which holes were my favorite because they are all really good.  I really liked #5, #8, #9, #11, #12, #14, #15, #16 and #18.

I will say this much the membership values a true pure golf experience (no pool or tennis courts at this club).  David Stone has created a masterpiece at The Honors that showcases perfect course conditioning in balance with all the grasses, wildflowers, honeysuckle and trees.  I just wish I had brought a camera so I could have posted some pics for everyone to see the view from the tee, standing in the fairway looking at the contouring greens and bunkers that are truly amazing and must be seen in person on the beauty and presentation they play in the course design.

This is my favorite course all time and I have played some great golf courses.

MDV


Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 09:57:30 PM »
Great golfing experience.  I was lucky enough to be invited as an unaccompanied guest with a friend of a friend my one time around.  It's a nice secluded treasue.  One of those "are you sure we're going the right way" experiences until you pull into the property.

We played in the heat of the summer.  I think I almost passed out from heat exhaustion on my way to the 11th tee, and I wasn't even carrying my own bag.  This from a guy that grew up in Memphis.

I've heard how difficult the course is and I could see it would be a dangerous place to struggle if your game was off, but I actually played one of my better one-try-only / special course rounds there.

I really enjoyed the par 4s the most on this course (least favorite of the par 4s were the two that wrap the lake - 7 and 15 I think.)  Favorite par 4s for me: 1, 4, 5, 10, 12, 13

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008, 09:57:53 PM »
Matt,
         How is the renovated 10th hole? When we played they were finishing up on it-it looks like a beast.

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2008, 10:00:41 PM »
Tim,
         It would appear that you have a knack at being on the right courses often! ;)

                    Jack

K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2008, 10:02:25 PM »
Kyle,

I live in Knoxville, Tennessee and for 15 years I have been waiting to play The Honors without begging a member to play (I wanted to earn the invitation).   From the time you enter the gate it is like you have crossed over into a world of private seclusion and perfect golf without any distractions.  The service is first class you are treated like a member even if your a guest and it is so laid back and relaxed having lunch on the veranda sipping iced tea so you can just enjoy the complete golf experience.

We walked our caddies were the best I have ever had and when they gave you a number you pulled the club and fired at the flag because you could trust every word they told you on how to play each hole and putt the greens with confidence.   It is hard to say which holes were my favorite because they are all really good.  I really liked #5, #8, #9, #11, #12, #14, #15, #16 and #18.

I will say this much the membership values a true pure golf experience (no pool or tennis courts at this club).  David Stone has created a masterpiece at The Honors that showcases perfect course conditioning in balance with all the grasses, wildflowers, honeysuckle and trees.  I just wish I had brought a camera so I could have posted some pics for everyone to see the view from the tee, standing in the fairway looking at the contouring greens and bunkers that are truly amazing and must be seen in person on the beauty and presentation they play in the course design.

This is my favorite course all time and I have played some great golf courses.

MDV

Matt,

It is refreshing to hear a response like that on here.  I'm glad that you got the opportunity and that it lived up to your expectations (something that really shows the quality of the club and the members lucky enough to call it home).

Tim,

I really like the par fours there as well with #9 and #12 being my favorites.  I also thought that #14 was one of the best par threes that I have ever played.

Matt Varney

Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2008, 10:12:06 PM »
Jack,

We played the Blue Tees just in front of the tips and it was playing like 475 I hammered a drive and still hit 4 iron to the front of the green.  The old 10th green is still in place they have yet to remove it (maybe they never will it mght just become part of the lore of the place).  We played a money game as a fivesome and in the end the head pro who was playing with us from the tips birdied 18 and from the back tee it is like 495 yards to square our match.

I agree the collection of Par 4's and some really great Par 3's make this course very special the Par 5's are not bad golf hoels at all it is just the other holes are so damn good and the routing is awesome.  I could understand how a hot day in the middle summer could really be tough playing with all the heat and humidity but, yesterday it was 75 sunny light breeze perfect.  

MDV

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2008, 10:07:31 AM »
Matt,
         How is the renovated 10th hole? When we played they were finishing up on it-it looks like a beast.

Hey Jack--how are things up in Chicago?

Here's my take on #10:

The original tenth green was fantastic and it was a shame they changed it back in '92 or '93.  It had a very pronounced front shelf that ran at an angle splitting the green on a diagonal from the middle of the green to the back left.  To the right the green dropped dramatically down to a lower right bowl.  The transition was as fierce as I have ever seen (thinking back I am not sure how it was mowed without scalping) and the left or front locations were brutal.  At 435 the hole was considered fairly long and you often had a 4-6 iron approach and keeping the ball from trickling down to the bowl was damn near impossible.

I know the lore of how the fairway came about was due to a suggestion by Alice Dye that the rock and chert removed from the original area of what was to be the fairway should continue and basically the fairway ended up a very moundy looking "tunnel!  It was a low area that never grew any grass and because of the zoysia the ball often hung up on the sides of the hills leaving some very awkward almost silly lies--not sure that was intentional.  The fairway paralleled the driving range and the old fairway seemed to me a poor attempt to hide the range?  I think Alice "bogeyed" this one.

Anyway a few years later the green was changed and softened dramatically.  The bowl became much easier and the left side, though still higher, was easy to hold--internal "backstops" help keep your ball "up".

Over time though 435 became a drive and short iron.  A decent drive on this slightly downhill tee shot rarely left more than an 8-iron and often a wedge.  Combined with the softer green, it had lost a bunch of its bite.

A huge new fairway bunker replaces the old sunken fairway and the new fairway is shifted right (perfect for me as I always managed to block my tee shot way right of the old fairway anyway :)).  I really like the new tee shot and I am sure David likes the fact that he can grow great grass there now.

BUT, I think the new green, moved 35-40 yards back left and up the hill is a really boring, plain, simple afterthought.  It seems completely devoid of any interest to me.  There is a small fold on the very front back toward the player to make this very long hole (475) play even longer by "rejecting" weakly played or run up shots.  The rest of the green just is kind of there. 

I think it may have been neat to re-route the fairway as they did but bring back the old, more severe original green.  Here a a couple of reasons why:

1.  The course hosts a lot of tournaments and qualifiers and in those events we use two tees (1 and 10).  #1 is a gentle opener--401 from the tips to a generous fairway and then a 8 iron to a wedge to a green set down below you.  #10 is now 475 with a very long second slightly uphill to a forced carry green.  For two "starting" holes, there is way too much difference in how they play.  Ideally, everyone starts on #1 but that just can't happen all the time.  For a course committed to hosting events, I think having #1 and #10 a little more similar in their demands would be good.

2.  The old severe green with the new fairway would play a little longer than the old 435 since it is not as downhill as the old tee shot.  It would play as a drive and 6-9 iron but to a more demanding target.

3.  Given all the length added in the last few years, a middle length hole would be good for the par 4s on the course.  We have long par 4s---all over 460 from the tips and up to 495--#4, #5, #7, #10, #15, #18
We have a couple of short holes (Drive and wedge)----#1 (401) , #9 (375) , #12 (355)
Only #13 is kind of a "middler".  It's 395 but as a dogleg often it's a 3-wood off the tee.

We could have used a 435 par 4 ;D

Thanks for the nice comments--I love the place and have been lucky to have been there since '91.  Mr. Lupton is a great man and has made a huge impact on so many things it is impossible to come close o giving him the credit he deserves for all his causes--I sure am glad he loves golf!  Maybe we can convince TD one day that the members up there really are some good guys ;D


Matt Varney

Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2008, 10:23:04 AM »
Chris,

You are very lucky to be a member at such a fine golf club.  If you ever get a chance to read Bury me in a Pot Bunker (Pete's Book) he has a chapter dedicated just to The Honors Course and working with Mr. Lupton and how they found David Stone. 

For me it is the perfect golf experience - laid back and relaxed enjoy nature and play your game with friends on a course design that requires accuracy and precision to score well.  I really liked #1 and found myself really focused on #10 tee becasue #9 was great hitting 3 wood off the tee 9 iron to the green and then all of sudden it is go time.  You have to really hammer the driver and control a long iron to score well on #10.  I agree the front of the green is nice but as it moves to the back and left up to the rear shelf you have some roll that just plays a little tricky.

I had just made the turn shot 38 on the front 9.  I hit a great drive then a 4 iron to front middle and 3 putted because I just cound not get a good feel for the roll on the first putt and left it about 8 feet short and made a 5" bogey putt that just burned my ass starting the back 9.

michael j fay

Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2008, 12:27:08 PM »
Fried chicken, magnificent banana pudding and iced tee on the veranda is hard to beat.

The course is one of Dye's best.

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2008, 12:59:24 PM »
Fried chicken, magnificent banana pudding and iced tee on the veranda is hard to beat.

The course is one of Dye's best.

Yeah, when I joined I was a 34" waist and 195 and today.............I'm not :o

But...what's half a hundred between golfing buddies?!?!  I can drink a lot more beer now.

K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2008, 01:02:34 PM »
Fried chicken, magnificent banana pudding and iced tee on the veranda is hard to beat.

The course is one of Dye's best.

Yeah, when I joined I was a 34" waist and 195 and today.............I'm not :o

But...what's half a hundred between golfing buddies?!?!  I can drink a lot more beer now.

That's no lie.

Matt Varney

Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2008, 02:01:13 PM »
You GCA guys are great! 

I agree with Mr. Fay the design is one Pete Dye's best but, when you add David Stone into the mix this place goes to another level.  I will never forget the first time I came through the trees walking and stood on the tee looking at each hole.  The design is great and then you add the perfect conditioning and it is over the top. 

 

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2008, 03:21:31 PM »
I too think it is one of Dye's best, but am I the only one that thinks the three holes around the lake seem to be beamed in from another architectural universe?

Bob

Matt Varney

Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2008, 03:39:16 PM »
Bob,

They are different but, that is what makes it work so well in the routing.  #7 was not my favorite hole on the course but it also was not a pushover easy par.  It required an accurate tee shot over the cove of the lake then a precise mid-iron shot to the green to have a chance at birdie.  I loved #8 it is a great par 3 and #9 might be one of the best holes I have ever played finishing next to the lake. 

#15 to me was like #18 at TPC Sawgrass only with a Tennessee Fieldstone touch to the design and #16 is a great par 3 that requires a perfect iron shot to make birdie.  I hit it to 15 feet and still missed the birdie coming and my ball was below the hole.  God help you if you hit your ball over the green on #16 into that bunker back left that has a wooden ladder going down into that hole.  I could only imagine what your score could be on that par 3 that late in the round if your ball came to rest in that bunker.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2008, 03:43:44 PM »
Matt,
           I would echo your sentiments. I had the opportunity to play here last October. The natural beauty in addition to a great routing was just a few reasons why I consider this club to be in my top 5. This is the ultimate in seclusion-great facilities on which to stay-I didn't ,but it didn't lessen the experience. We had a packed weekend of golf that I will always remember. Our host in addition to be one hell of a player(I'm not) was just a hoot to spend time with. I hope to return the favor this summer. Probably one of the hardest entrances to find in golf! Like trying to find the Batman cave. ;D

Aren't the directions still "take a left at the big,white propane tank"?

Matt Varney

Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2008, 03:46:47 PM »
I am not telling if you get invitation and play The Honors it could have junk yard across the street from the entrance gate and it doesn't matter.  Once you get inside the gates and you turn off your phone it is a different world.


BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2008, 03:57:01 PM »
Matt -

I don't think any of them are pushovers. To the contrary. They are plenty challenging.

It's rather that 14 or 15 other holes roll beautifully through the hilly property. They are among Dye's best. Then there are three holes around the lake that are very flat and feel like something on the banks of the Intercoastal Waterway in northeast Florida. They struck me as oddly designed in the context of the rest of the course.

Bob 

John Shimp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2008, 03:59:38 PM »
I like the lake par 3 and hole 15.  7 while very tough isn't a favorite.  I love the place though.  My favorite stretch on the course is 12-14.  Get beers after 14 too!

Matt Varney

Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2008, 04:02:28 PM »
John,

I agree on the lake par 3's and #14 may be one of neatest fun-to-play par 3's I have ever played right up with #7 at Pebble.

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2008, 04:46:01 PM »

Aren't the directions still "take a left at the big,white propane tank"?

Based on the picture provided on Microsoft Virtual Earth, you would be correct.
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2008, 05:27:43 PM »

Aren't the directions still "take a left at the big,white propane tank"?

Based on the picture provided on Microsoft Virtual Earth, you would be correct.

I wasn't joking.The first time I was there,those were the directions I was given.If that propane tank is ever removed,I'll never find the entrance.

Lawrence Largent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Honors Course
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2008, 05:52:56 PM »
I too have always wondered about the holes around the lake. If they would have fit the rest of the course this could be a top 5 layout. The membership is great and they are all golf nuts.


Chris are u playing next weekend? Have you talked to Boyd lately?


Lawrence