[Phil_the_Author]

Without any comment, I am certain though that this will inspire some thoughts and ideas...

From the book, Golf Architecture in America, Its Strategy and Construction, by George C. Thomas Jr. published in 1927:

In on page XXIII of the Foreward, Thomas writes in par. 1 about Ross and Tillinghast that they are, "Both golf architects of the highest class..."

He then writes in par.2, "I always considered HUGH WILSON [capitals mine], of Merion, Pennsylvania, as one of the best of our architects, professional or amateur. He TAUGHT ME many things at MERION and Philadelphia Municipal; and when I was building my first California courses, he kindly ADVISED ME by letter when i wrote him concerning them..."

 

[Peter Pallotta]

Philip,

as I head off knowing that I can contribute nothing else on anything else (even if contribution is measured only in word count) I can only say:

To those who believe, no evidence is necessary
To those who don't believe, no evidence will suffice

Peter
A great quote - thanks...

[Phil_the_Author]

Peter
A great quote - thanks...

Or as that greatest of 20th century philosophers, Mr. Stanley Lee, often wrote, "'Nuff Said!"

[Mike_Cirba]

OH, I'm quite sure the David will be here any moment to say that George Thomas must have been out in that hot Los Angeles sun too long and become delusional, or Shivas will provide us with the legal meaning of "advise" is, or Patrick will jump in and ask 20 questions on what actual proof we have that THomas actually knew Hugh Wilson and did Thomas ever actually meet Richard Francis, and I'm sure David will say it was the Merion West course that Thomas was talking about and both David and Shivas will say it's hearsay, even though Thomas...like TIllinghast...was THERE, and had each been practicing golf course architects since 1908.

Peter's quotation is absolutely true.

They claim that they want to get to the truth, but what they really want is to elevate CB Macdonald and demote Hugh Wilson, when NOTHING in the historical record has given us any reason to do that.   It really is a zero sum game in some respects, so this whole effort has been to discredit Wilson at every turn.

While guys like TIlly wrote that Wilson "Planned" Merion, we are supposed to dismiss that, but the fact that when the Wilson brothers, and others all say Macdonald "advised", then these revisionist historians tell us that means he must have routed the course and designed the holes.

And now we have the brilliant, complete FLUFFER letter from Macdonald that Wayne found that was a foundational piece of evidence to David's whole case and it turns out to be the GCA version of Al Capone's vault, and instead of admitting they were wrong and moving on to more productive uses of our collective time, this nonsense still continues.

I ask myself why I still continue on here, and don't just withdraw from this whole nonsensical discussion, and it finally comes down to this;

Men of great historic reputation are being prejudged because David Moriarty and some others don't think he knew a damn thing and can't figure out for the life of themselves how he built a great course.    They have come into this with a historical agenda and perspective that is incorrect, and prejudicial, and I for one will not let it stand as the truth.

[David Stamm]

Without any comment, I am certain though that this will inspire some thoughts and ideas...

From the book, Golf Architecture in America, Its Strategy and Construction, by George C. Thomas Jr. published in 1927:

In on page XXIII of the Foreward, Thomas writes in par. 1 about Ross and Tillinghast that they are, "Both golf architects of the highest class..."

He then writes in par.2, "I always considered HUGH WILSON [capitals mine], of Merion, Pennsylvania, as one of the best of our architects, professional or amateur. He TAUGHT ME many things at MERION and Philadelphia Municipal; and when I was building my first California courses, he kindly ADVISED ME by letter when i wrote him concerning them..."

 

FWIW, I mentioned GT's comments in regards to HW on the original Merion thread.

[Phil_the_Author]

David,

I think that is worth a great deal. You deserve credit for brining it to the attention of all and I really do think it is an important statement on both it's face and for those that want to interpret it. Undoubtedly it proves that a number of his contemporary fellow architects were deeply impressed by his knowledge and work.

[David Stamm]

David,

I think that is worth a great deal. You deserve credit for brining it to the attention of all and I really do think it is an important statement on both it's face and for those that want to interpret it. Undoubtedly it proves that a number of his contemporary fellow architects were deeply impressed by his knowledge and work.

Philip, I'm sorry if it came across that I was looking for "credit". That was not my intention. I just wanted to point out that this was "kicked around" on the first Merion thread. I do agree with you that it is a interesting and important statement.

[TEPaul]

That remark has been used before on some of these Merion/Macdonald threads as evidence that Wilson could not have been such a novice when Merion began.

However, it should be pointed out that Thomas' words and description of Wilson was written many years later (about 1926) and he may've been talking about Wilson and his advice in the years following the beginning of Merion East. Certainly no one has ever implied that Wilson remained a novice in architecture in the years following the creation of the intial phase of Merion East (which was the beginning of his first project).

When one uses this kind of remark it really should be explained in some "timelining" context or it can be misunderstood and misapplied.

[Phil_the_Author]

David,

No, I absolutely didn't mean anything by the word credit. I didn't remember it being mentioned on the other Merion threads and thought that even if it had, it needed a new airing.

I agree Tom, that is why I just posted the comment as stated without application or interpretation.

What I find most interesting is how Thomas, contemporary to all of them, CBM included, didn't mention CBM in this piece. He did praise his work throughou the book, using both drawings and designs of his to explain, but I just found his simple statement of how Wilson taught him so much at both Merion and Cobb while not mentioning being taught by anyone else fascinating.

All can read into it what they wish...

[David Stamm]

However, it should be pointed out that Thomas' words and description of Wilson was written many years later (about 1926) and he may've been talking about Wilson and his advice in the years following the beginning of Merion East. Certainly no one has ever implied that Wilson remained a novice in architecture in the years following the creation of the intial phase of Merion East (which was the beginning of his first project).

When one uses this kind of remark it really should be explained in some "timelining" context or it can be misunderstood and misapplied.

Precisely, Tom. I couldn't agree more. Timing, or in this timelining, is everything.

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