[Tommy Williamsen]

Since there is a thread about Jack’s architecture I thought I would share my experience with one of his newest courses.

Yesterday I played JN's new course outside DC in Virginia.  It is The Ritz Carlton Golf Club at Creighton Farms.  I think it could be his best work, Muirfield Village not withstanding.  It did not favor the fade any more than it did the hook.  The land is perfect for a course.  Rolling, relatively treeless, with wetlands, and a creek flowing throughout the course. 

I always felt that JN does his best work on par fives.  These par fives are exceptional.  Some are reachable.  Some are absolutely not reachable for anyone but are true three shot holes.  On each of the par fives the second shot must be played with some thought.  The second shots are not easy. 

The par threes are very good but not great.  It has good short par fours and some long par fours that require nerve, courage, and restraint. 

The greens are small with a great deal of movement.  My biggest critique is the three inch thick blue grass that seems to ring most of the greens.  With such small greens, the rough was too penal and after a while it got boring trying to hit a delicate flop shot. 

It can be played at 7400, 6800, or 6200. I played the 6800 yard tees and shot about 80. I usually play to a five handicap.  It is very difficult but if you think your way around you can score.  It is worth the time if you can play it.

[Tommy Williamsen]

One of the things I meant to mention was the look of the bunkers.  It seems to me that the look of his bunkering has changed since Sebonack.  They had a jagged look with great serpentine tongues of grass.  Standing on the eighteenth fairway you would swear you were at Sebonack.

[Chip Gaskins]

Tommy-

I am going to play on May 26th.  Your thoughts are the first I have heard of the place.  I will report back what I find as well.  Believe it or not I look forward to giving it a go...

Chip

[cary lichtenstein]

Who was JN's lead architect on this project?

[Brad Klein]

TW, you were there Thursday, yesterday? So was I, all day, or at least 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. to play, have lunch, and as quiet as it was and how much time I spent hanging out at the clubhouse am amazed I didn't see you.

[mike_beene]

How far out is it?Is it close to a metro station? Is it good enough to be worth dragging clubs up to DC? Would you forgo Burning Tree or Congressional for a round?

[Tommy Williamsen]

TW, you were there Thursday, yesterday? So was I, all day, or at least 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. to play, have lunch, and as quiet as it was and how much time I spent hanging out at the clubhouse am amazed I didn't see you.

Brad I was there Wednesday from about 2-7.  We had a caddy named Chris who knew the course very well.  It was a tough walk but worth it.  I think we were the only ones on the golf course.  I wish I had been there with you.  It would have been fun to compare notes.  Given the size of their temporary club house (to be learning center)  it would have been tough to miss me.  I got to speak with the ass't Scott for a while who was very gracious.

That aside, what did you think about the bunkering?  Other thoughts?

[Tommy Williamsen]

How far out is it?Is it close to a metro station? Is it good enough to be worth dragging clubs up to DC? Would you forgo Burning Tree or Congressional for a round?

It is long slog from the metro.  I went out Route 66 to route 15 then north about ten miles or so.  If you have not been to Burning Tree go.  Not for the course but for the experience.  The Azaleas are out and it is a special place.  As for Congressional the history of the place speaks for itself.  I put this course in its class, however.  Time will tell but I thought it was a great test that could hold any tournament. 

[Brad Klein]

So, you lied! You weren't there "yesterday" when you wrote this. You were there the day before.

Chris is an amazing caddie, very knowledagable and very restrained. They've obviously been through the entire Ritz-Carlton concierge service training program.

I enjoyed the course but it's a lot of work, very tough. 910 acres, lots of land, dotted with ponds and wetlands, making for 10-11 holes where water of some sort is a factor. Only 4-5 of the holes allow for ground game access to the greens, so it's aerial golf here. But the fairways are massive, and the corridors don't make you feel cramped in the least.

[Tommy Williamsen]

So, you lied! You weren't there "yesterday" when you wrote this. You were there the day before.

I take that you wrote this tongue in cheek.  Actually, I wrote in a word document on Thursday but posted it Friday. Moreover, at my age yesterdays run together.

The course was indeed tough.  My buddy asked me, another GD panelist, if I had fun.  In some ways I did, but the course did'nt seem to let up but made me grind on most every shot.

[Carl Nichols]

Since there is a thread about Jack’s architecture I thought I would share my experience with one of his newest courses.

Yesterday I played JN's new course outside DC in Virginia.  It is The Ritz Carlton Golf Club at Creighton Farms.  I think it could be his best work, Muirfield Village not withstanding.  It did not favor the fade any more than it did the hook.  The land is perfect for a course.  Rolling, relatively treeless, with wetlands, and a creek flowing throughout the course. 

I always felt that JN does his best work on par fives.  These par fives are exceptional.  Some are reachable.  Some are absolutely not reachable for anyone but are true three shot holes.  On each of the par fives the second shot must be played with some thought.  The second shots are not easy. 

The par threes are very good but not great.  It has good short par fours and some long par fours that require nerve, courage, and restraint. 

The greens are small with a great deal of movement.  My biggest critique is the three inch thick blue grass that seems to ring most of the greens.  With such small greens, the rough was too penal and after a while it got boring trying to hit a delicate flop shot. 

It can be played at 7400, 6800, or 6200. I played the 6800 yard tees and shot about 80. I usually play to a five handicap.  It is very difficult but if you think your way around you can score.  It is worth the time if you can play it.

Tommy:
What were the conditions like -- are they trying to keep it firm and fast, or is it more in the lush category? 

[Jimmy Muratt]

Here is a pdf of the course layout, some interesting looking holes:

http://www.creightonfarms.com/CFGolfMap.pdf

...and a link to their site which has some pictures:

http://www.creightonfarms.com/

[Tommy Williamsen]

Carl, the course was pretty firm.  The greens were very firm.  The fairways ran very well.  It was very windy so shots into the wind sat down fairly fast.  As Brad mentioned there were not too many holes where you could run it on.  But there were some holes like the par four seventh where I bounced a ball left and short of the green and let it bounce onto the putting surface. 

Jimmy the pictures don't really give you a good feel for the course.  They were just pretty pictures.  They certainly don't allow you to get a feel for the bunkering which is just terrific.

[Brad Klein]

Those Website images are about the least helpful collection I've ever seen for a golf course, esp. a high-end real estate one.

[Tim Taylor]

How far out is it?Is it close to a metro station? Is it good enough to be worth dragging clubs up to DC? Would you forgo Burning Tree or Congressional for a round?

It is way out there, a few miles west of Leesburg on Route 15.

Glad to hear the course turned out so well. I've been sorta following it since the groundbreaking a few years ago. That part of Loudoun County is just gorgeous. I hope the 200 or so people that are fortunate enough to be members enjoy it

Tim

[Jonathan Cummings]

A feature article just came out last week in VA Golfer on Creighton Farms.  The author has done an excellent review ( ). 

Creighton was built during the same time the Nicklaus group was building Sebanok and I swear I see Doak bunkering on some of the holes.  Jim Lipe was the lead and he did an excellent job.  I think the piece of property is nice but not great.  Lipe was able to do a rather rare thing in GCA - the architectural features increase the character of the layout more than do the esthetic features.

The tiny 14th hole is pure genius.

The Director of Golf – Jason Paul – is a class act and sure to run a quality club.  A few years ago I wrote an article about Jason’s previous quality club – Westfields.  He was hired by the Ritz group for good reason.

JC

[Jonathan Cummings]

One other thing about Creighton Farms is that it's service offered to their members and residents may be unequalled anywhere.  The list of services available to the members at Creighton goes beyond the definition of pampering.

JC

 

[Rich Brittingham]

Thanks for the detailed review and critique of the course, as it is the closest I'll ever get to forming an opinion of the course.  I work and live 10 miles north of the course and I know I will never get a chance to go inside the gates. 
It is unfortunate that with all the talk about "growing the game of golf" the financials of running a course prevent the construction of quality new courses that fit the budget of the modestly paid obesseive golfer.

[BCrosby]

Rich -

I don't have any easy answers for you. The single worst feature of American golf is its exclusivity. There are a range of reasons for it, including the different economics of US privates vs. golf in the rest of the world. But there's not much you or I can do about it.

The irony is that an American like you can take a month off and, with a few calls, play all the best courses in the UK. That's unlikely to happen to any of us over the course of a lifetime in the US.

Jonathan -

If you are affiliated with Creighton Farms, it is usually seen as good form here to disclose that. Thanks.

Bob 

[Carl Nichols]

I played Creighton Farms yesterday for the first time and wasn't as enamored of it as many others who posted on this thread.  There are some really cool holes -- I agree with other posters that 12 and 14 (especially 14) are both terrific -- but IMHO other aspects were much less positive.  Among other things, the par 3's were pretty boring, and in a few instances the use of the wetlands left me scratching my head.

I suspect that one big difference between the early reviews and today (six years later) is that houses have now been built--and are currently under construction.  I wasn't there six years ago, but my guess is that the course has lost some of its Virginia horse country feel, and now screams residential community.  While the playing corridors are quite wide (as Brad indicates), there's a lot of OB because of the houses -- lots of white stakes -- and hazards because of the wetlands and streams.

Finally, I'm surprised that people think it's really that walkable--not because it's that hilly, because there were a lot of long green-to-tee transitions, some of which involved a fair amount of doubling back.  I think it can be walked, but it didn't seem like a particularly enticing walk.

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