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Dan Kelly

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Educating Jonathan Franzen
« on: May 07, 2008, 02:53:18 PM »
In a recent article for The New Yorker magazine ("The Way of the Puffin"; April 21, 2008), Jonathan Franzen comments on golf:

"My difficulty with golf is that, although I play it once or twice a year to be sociable, I dislike almost everything about it. The point of the game seems to be the methodical euthanizing of workday-sized chunks of time by well-off white men. Golf eats land, drinks water, displaces wildlife, fosters sprawl. I dislike the self-congratulations of its etiquette, the self-important hush of its television analysts. Most of all, I dislike how badly I play the game. Spelled backward, golf is flog."

Let's set aside the moldy cliches that clog this short passage -- the "workday-sized chunks of time" required by a round of golf (we should all have such workdays!); the "well-off white men" who play the game (a stereotype that would equally surprise both Tiger Woods and my daughter -- just to cite two examples, among millions); the "self-congratulations" of golf's etiquette (guilty as charged, and proudly so); the "self-important hush" of the announcers (a hush occasionally heard, yes, at The Masters -- but nowhere else); and the astonishingly tired observation "Spelled backward, golf is flog." (Mr. Franzen, I suppose, might have thought that an original and witty observation! We'll have to leave it to The New Yorker's legendary fact checkers -- who must have had a heckuva time with this paragraph! -- to determine what he knew and when he knew it.)

But let's leave that all aside.

Let's address a single sentence: "Golf eats land, drinks water, displaces wildlife, fosters sprawl."

Let's educate Mr. Franzen on the truth (and/or the lack thereof) and the wisdom (and/or the lack thereof) in that sentence.

And when we are finished, I will make sure to send him a link to our discussion.

We have to teach these people, one at a time.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2008, 03:20:02 PM »
Quote
Let's address a single sentence: "Golf eats land, drinks water, displaces wildlife, fosters sprawl."

OK Dan, I'll play...  ;) ;D

Golf eats land... yes and no.  Many new courses are placed on reclaimed and rehabilitated land fills, open mines, and scars already made on the land by other activities.  Yes, some courses use great land.  Some, like Bandon Resorts use land (bought and paid for by a developer) and bring economic advantages to an area like remote Bandon Dunes, that would not have been there had the developer not taken the investment risk.  Yes, golf eats land, and sometimes traditionalist golf architecture buffs ask if too much land isn't being eaten unnecessarily because of ball and equipment causing the land used by courses to increase due to longer corridors needed to play.   Also, litigation for greater separation of holes stimulates greater land use.  But the bottom line is most land eaten to create golf is bought and paid for.  And, it is pretty well documented that 200 acres of golf property (with about 50-75 acres under fert and chem management) is far less impact than 200 acres of farm growing fields with all the land under fert and chem management. 

too much water... again yes and no.  As we know, many courses are now being forced and can only exist with the use of effluent water.  What better way to dispose of the effluent?  Yes, some courses use the same aquifers that muni water comes from, and that is becoming a problem.  The golf maintenance and management industries are looking at new management techniques where less water is being encouraged, with the benefit in some golfers minds that firmer faster conditions do result from cutting back water.  So, I'd say that water usage as a concept is on the positive tract to reducing usage or using effluent.  Also, the increased use in appropriate climates of paspalum grasses that can use near brackish water and heavy metal waters is also on the upswing. 

displaces wildlife... I see more varieties of wild life, particularly birds on golf courses than I do corn fields or wheat or hay fields... 

Fosters sprawl... golf will go where people go.  If an industry sites a new plant or facility employing many people in a suburban area (which is the trend) people that move to those environs will demand recreation.  They will also want parks, ball fields, new schools, and yes golf courses near where they live.  Golf is not leading to sprawl.  People moving to the burbs for work or flight from inner cities leads to sprawl, and golf follows.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2008, 03:39:02 PM »
Dan:

Jonathan Franzen is one of the most self-indulgent, ego-centered writers to come down the pike in a long time, which is saying a lot.

Tell me you didn't actually make it all the way through "The Corrections."

Peter Pallotta

Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2008, 03:50:36 PM »
Dan - I don't want to sidetrack this, because I think it is a valuable exercise, but I had the same basic thought that Phil had, i.e.

Are you getting soft and fuzzy in your old age? How in god's name did you even get through that first paragraph of tired and trite and insincerely 'writerly' writing? It strikes me that Jonathan Frazen doesn't believe a single word he wrote there; it's all conceit passing itself off as honesty...the worst kind of writing in Dan Kelly's book, I'd have thought

You were obviously able to look past that, which is admirable. But remember, we're all very fond of you Dan -- as the stickler, the wordsmith, the skeptic, and the lover of the simple truth in writing.

Sorry for the interruption. Good post, RJ.

Peter

   

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2008, 04:00:24 PM »
Golf doesn't cause sprawl, people do. Golf leaves green space in areas that eventually become saturated with people. Ironically, it will likely be the only place to see wildlife in that neighborhood.

A twice a year golfer who doesn't get the benefits of exercising one's brain, outdoors, won't likely be swayed by any thread.
 
Kudos Mr. Kelly for the attempt. Glad to have your wit and wisdom back posting.


"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2008, 04:02:31 PM »
Before this gets completely sidetracked....

I have not read "The Corrections."

Nor have I finished the piece in question -- though I might.

Peter -- This didn't strike you as harsh enough criticism? "Let's set aside the moldy cliches that clog this short passage -- the 'workday-sized chunks of time' required by a round of golf (we should all have such workdays!); the 'well-off white men' who play the game (a stereotype that would equally surprise both Tiger Woods and my daughter -- just to cite two examples, among millions); the 'self-congratulations' of golf's etiquette (guilty as charged, and proudly so); the 'self-important hush' of the announcers (a hush occasionally heard, yes, at The Masters -- but nowhere else); and the astonishingly tired observation 'Spelled backward, golf is flog.' (Mr. Franzen, I suppose, might have thought that an original and witty observation! We'll have to leave it to The New Yorker's legendary fact checkers -- who must have had a heckuva time with this paragraph! -- to determine what he knew and when he knew it.)"

Sheesh, I meant it to be harsh! Maybe I needed to add some scowly-faced emoticons....

P.S. I'm neither soft nor fuzzy nor old, sir!

P.P.S. I have no idea whether Mr. Franzen believes anything he wrote there -- but I do think lots of people believe what he wrote there.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Matt Dupre

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2008, 04:08:45 PM »
As someone who attended the same institution of higher learning, at the same time (though our paths rarely even crossed), as Franzen his comments on the game sadly don't surprise me.  Swarthmore tends to turn out a higher class of elitists than its peers, who even though  might not "get it" have no compunction about commenting on "it" - and commenting on "it" in an obviously uneducated manner.  It amazes me how some can become pundits when their only frame of reference is a passing connection - "once or twice a year."

RJ pretty much has the rebuttal covered - but I almost don't think it's even worth responding to someone spouting uninformed talking points.

I couldn't even make it halfway through "The Corrections" - I'd much rather read what Carl Hiassen says about golf, as he's made the effort to "get it."

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2008, 04:37:32 PM »
Dan,

Rather than "educating" Mr. Franzen, it may be easier on your self to just assign him to read John Updike's "Golf Dreams".  Then Mr. Franzen can ask Mr. Updike why he does not have these issues with golf.

By the way I enjoyed most of Mr. Franzen's earlier novel, "The Twenty Seventh City", although it seemed to get bogged down at the end.  He is a talented writer, but of course one needs more than just talent.
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 04:44:43 PM »
You people are such literalists!

This is not (no matter what I said) about Jonathan Franzen! That was merely a bit of literary license, on my part.

Jonathan Franzen is a mere SYMBOL and PERSONIFICATION of attitudes that I am guessing are pretty -- for lack of a better word -- common.

My question for you esteemed gentlemen is this:

In what ways are those attitudes true or not, wise or not?

(Dick made a nice start at answering it. Thank you, sir!)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 04:50:29 PM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2008, 04:46:32 PM »
...
Let's educate Mr. Franzen on the truth (and/or the lack thereof) and the wisdom (and/or the lack thereof) in that sentence.
...

I'm fairly certain Mr. Franzen has no interest in hearing about it.  Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.


Matt Dupre

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2008, 04:51:43 PM »
Dan,

My point was that the attitude may certainly be there, but consider the source.  There's generally an agenda of some kind, but the points can easily be refuted by anyone who's done their homework. 

Somewhat akin to PETA's claiming that race horses are mistreated to make their owners rich - they don't have a clue about the sport, but have an incident that they can leverage to serve their own purpose.

I would find it hard to believe that anyone involved with the game of golf could support any of Franzen's points.


Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2008, 04:59:13 PM »
Is this the same guy who has scored 11 goals for Detroit in the playoffs?

He does get around....

I think the environmentalists smell a Dem victory and are ramping up the PR machine against the "rich guys" who play golf.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 05:52:38 PM »
Dan,

I am not sure I would bother. 

Michael Barone in his book "Our Country" suggests that culture not economics accounts for much of our political differences.  Though I am just in the first part, I get the impression that he is of the opinion that these closely held beliefs ingrained during early, meaningful stages in one's life become relatively inflexible.  He reminds the reader that the divisiveness prevalent in the late 1980s (when the book was written) is nothing new in our country's history, reflecting the diverse cultures that have always made America.

It took some goading from my high school friends to get me on a golf course.  Growing up in baseball and basketball, golf didn't seem to be a real sport.  But they (my friends) only needed to get me on the course one time for me to fall in love with the game.

So, I generally encourage people who ask me about playing golf to give it a go.  Those who then look to me for some pointers and advice, I'll help them with their fundamentals, refer them to a professional for lessons, and suggest they get a book from the library to learn about the etiquette, customs, and rules of the game.  People who having tried the game don't get it, thankfully there are many other endeavors for them to pursue.

BTW, one of the counterpoints to the golf hurts the environment argument is the great progress that has been made by the industry on issues of wetlands and water quality.  I read somewhere awhile back that there is more wetlands acreage in the U.S. in 2000 than there was in 1900.  Then this morning I read that wetlands alone produce more CO2 and other harmful greenhouses gases than all human activity combined.  I guess we better come up with some new talking points.   
     
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 10:24:31 PM by Lou_Duran »

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2008, 09:36:14 PM »

Michael Barone in his book "Our Country" suggests that culture not economics accounts for much of our political differences.  Though I am just in the first part, I get the impression that he is of the opinion that these closely held beliefs ingrained during early, meaningful stages in one's life become relatively inflexible.  He reminds the reader that the divisiveness prevalent in the late 1980s (when the book was written) is nothing new in our country's history, reflecting the diverse cultures that has always made America.


...A very good book, well worth reading. Barone is one of the more astute political analysts around. because he does things like look at actual voting data from around the country to reach his conclusions.


Rich Goodale

Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2008, 03:53:44 AM »
Dan

Let's face it, educating a writer as to what it means to be a golf wingnut is as easy as trying to educate a golf wingnut about writing.  Or, to put it another way, how restrained do you think Franzen would be if asked to offer an honest critique of the 500+ post Merion thread.  How would any of us react if we found ourselves trapped in the midst of 1500 Morris dancers, whether or not they were trying to dance on the head of a pin?

Rich

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2008, 07:51:10 AM »
... how restrained do you think Franzen would be if asked to offer an honest critique of the 500+ post Merion thread.

Rihc --

I couldn't say.

I gave up all such threads for Lent -- and (the saints be praised!) no temptation to return to my old ways has risen again since Easter.÷

Dan
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Rich Goodale

Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2008, 08:41:06 AM »
Dan

What the hell is that division symbol at the end of your post?  Surely not some sort of emoticon!?  If so, you have succumbed to a far greater temptation than any Merion thread could induce.  Are you sure all is well?

Caringly

Rich

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2008, 09:06:01 AM »
Dan

What the hell is that division symbol at the end of your post?  Surely not some sort of emoticon!?  If so, you have succumbed to a far greater temptation than any Merion thread could induce.  Are you sure all is well?

Caringly

Rich

Rich --

Oh, it's certainly not an emoticon -- not in any "traditional" sense, at least.

To paraphrase Citizen Kane: "I am, have been, and will be only one thing -- an Emoticon Opponent."

I was going to tell you that it was an inadvertent key-strike, absolutely unintended -- but the more I looked at it, the more it looked like the Sign of the Cross symbol in the old Missals (denoting where the priest would make a Sign of the Cross motion with his right hand), and seeing where I put it, and the content of my post ... well, now I'm the one who's worried!

In other news: All is well.

Feeling deeply cared for,

Dan ÷



"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2008, 09:22:05 AM »
There is a Paul Simon song with lyrics "He made the sign of the teaspoon, she made the sign of the wave....."  I think its from his song, "Diamonds on the Soles of her (golf) shoes."

Maybe Dan is just coming up with his own signs to recapture his youth. ;D
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2008, 09:55:28 AM »
I don't mean to interrupt all the clever repartee, but you might ask Franzen if golf courses are so bad, what would he suggest replacing them with that would be an improvement? Or better, given normal development trends in places where courses are built, what are the real world alternatives that would fix his parade of horribles?

Bob
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 09:57:40 AM by BCrosby »

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2008, 10:34:08 AM »
Bob,

Those kind of people just don't think that way.

Personally, I would love to see environmental writers tell us if they are driving Prius', living in huts, hunting their food, etc.  In truth, many are "do as I say" kind of people, not do as I do.  I was once battling a Sierra Club member who complained about golf being an elitist sport. During the presentation, someone noticed a Mercedes with its lights on out in the parking lot. And who do you think it belonged to? ;)

Also, in modern life, its not possible to reduce our "carbon footprints" to use a popular phrase as much as anyone including Franzen would like, so I will give him that.  Of course, he would say every little bit helps.

All of that said, it usually isn't the environment, its the politics.  And its image, not facts to him.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Art Roselle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2008, 11:42:30 AM »
It is just the same, tiresome, pseudo-intellectual criticism that one always hears from that school of thought.  Golf is a game of leisure and costs money to play.  Both of those characteristics make it skew toward people with some means.  Unfortunately, in this country, that economic skew tends to also result in a racial skew, which makes it an easy target.  The same or similar criticisms are aimed at virtually every activity which skews in this way.  Snow Skiing, boating, hunting, larger cars, larger houses, suburbia, shopping malls, heck - America in general.  All are bashed with some subset of the same toolkit.  They are racist, wasteful, uncool and environmentally destructive.  Whether you find any of these sorts of activites more or less acceptable, they all tend to get painted with the same brush.  Golf is arguably one of the least problematic on all of his chosen fronts, but it still gets the same paint.

The snide racial reference has been around for a long time and will not go away any time soon.  The intellectual writer is too progressive to enjoy a pasttime that seems to skew toward white people.  The more recent criticism du jour is the environmental one, and conveniently, it can be aimed at virtually anything which uses space or energy.  The same critics who will lament the loss of "green space" will then bash golf for "eating land".  There may be some valid environmental complaints about golf (many of which were fairly well covered in this month's Golf Digest), but I would not think that "eating land" is a reasonable one.

The Corrections is well written, but it spends most of its effort trying to establish the idea that "normal" Western family life is actually very unhappy for its participants.  This is also a trendy social commentary that gets lots of praise at cocktail parties in Manhattan.  It gets praise for being insightful social commentary, while I actually find it to be the same retread material that shows up over and over again. 

Franzen is described as being from a literary movement called "hysterical realism".  I have no idea what that means, buit I find it to be more hysterical (not in the funny sense) than realistic.

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2008, 12:00:48 PM »
Bob,

Those kind of people just don't think that way.

Personally, I would love to see environmental writers tell us if they are driving Prius', living in huts, hunting their food, etc.  In truth, many are "do as I say" kind of people, not do as I do.  I was once battling a Sierra Club member who complained about golf being an elitist sport. During the presentation, someone noticed a Mercedes with its lights on out in the parking lot. And who do you think it belonged to? ;)

Also, in modern life, its not possible to reduce our "carbon footprints" to use a popular phrase as much as anyone including Franzen would like, so I will give him that.  Of course, he would say every little bit helps.

All of that said, it usually isn't the environment, its the politics.  And its image, not facts to him.

First, having read a variety of Jonathan Franzen's writings I would not categorize him as an "environmentalist writer".  It appears that he is completely ignorant per golf, and got lazy per this recent article.

I am sure there are still quite a few environmentalists out there who are anti-golf, but I certainly am seeing less and less of these anti-golf writings and statements.  I think the "golf community" has been properly perceived as adequately responding to the concerns of overuse of chemicals.  In addition, some of the proactive measures taken over the past couple of decades to have golf courses better co-exist with wildlife appear to have also dampened some of the concerns about golf courses being detrimental to the environment.

Based on what I have seen and heard the last few years, I think the "golf is bad for the environment" viewpoint is now in the minority of those active in the environmentalist sphere.  I no longer get worked up by the few instances of writings I occasionally still come across showing a complete ignorance of golf and it's implications on the environment.  From most of what I now see in writings and other media, I think most environmentalist perceive golf as primarily not a concern.

Now I do know that when development of a wetlands comes up there can often be an uproar.  However, when this pertains to a golf course development, I do not perceive these uproars as against golf, but rather against any development of that wetland.  This is not a pro or anti comment about these disagreements about development of wetlands, but rather just an observation that these are not about golf per se, but is just about golf at that location.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 01:37:59 PM by Bill Shamleffer »
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Carl Rogers

Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2008, 02:34:53 PM »
Last weekend's Wall Street Journal had an interesting golf and environmental article noting the efforts by golf courses in drought plagued Georgia to curb water use.  If we can all get use to a more 'shaggy' look, more variable turf conditions according to the weather patterns, there is a way for golf to blunt these criticisms, by pointing out the positive environmental attributes of the game. Our friends abroad have figured this out a long time ago.

Personally, I do not think that golf can buy its way out (environmental credits and the like).  It will have to be mandated.

Superlatively manicured examples like ANGC and the USGA venues will and should be around.  It is the Trump and ANGC wannabe's that are the problem.  Sadly, desert golf may have to go.

There should be room in the game for everybody, but we have to get use a more varied golf experience.  I am basically optimistic.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Educating Jonathan Franzen
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2008, 03:42:22 PM »
Before this gets completely sidetracked....

I have not read "The Corrections."

Nor have I finished the piece in question -- though I might.


Did -- during my midday constitutional, just ended.

WAY further into the piece (which mostly wasn't painful -- editorially speaking), I found this revealing passage -- presented here without commentary:

"China in general, in its headlong pursuit of money, with fabulous millionaires and a vast underclass and a dismantled social safety net, and with a central government obsessed with security and skilled at exploiting nationalism to quiet its critics, and with economic and environmental regulations entrusted to incestuous consortia of businesses and local governments, had already been striking me as the most [ADJECTIVE MOMENTARILY WITHHELD] place I'd ever been."

I pause here, now, to allow you to consider: What do you suppose that MOMENTARILY WITHHELD ADJECTIVE might be?

Hmmmmm...

Well, now, here it is:

"China in general, in its headlong pursuit of money, with fabulous millionaires and a vast underclass and a dismantled social safety net, and with a central government obsessed with security and skilled at exploiting nationalism to quiet its critics, and with economic and environmental regulations entrusted to incestuous consortia of businesses and local governments, had already been striking me as the most Republican place I'd ever been."

If you guessed "GOP," treat yourself to a Chinese-made driver-head cover in the shape of a Puffin!
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

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