The Shore Course and Honest Opinons

[J_ Crisham]

Tom,
           If you recall, the genius of the green complex design has taken into account being long, if this is in fact played in a prevailing downwind situation. This hole had a beautiful, spacious chipping area on the backside of the green. As an aside you posted earlier that 80% would prefer Pasa over MPCC Shore. I disagree. The vistas are much prettier, the pace of play faster ,less severe green slopes, great waste bunkers,the list goes on and on. Pasa was great but how can MPCC Shore not be in the top 100! Having played about half of the socalled top100 this should be in the 70-80 range-in my humble uneducated opinion.

[John Mayhugh]

Kalen:

I don't recall ever playing that hole in anything but a headwind or crosswind.  But man down-wind might be even worse as then tehre would REALLY not be any way to hold the green.... But my apologies, delete that "prevailing wind" part.  I really don't know.

TH

If Bob needs anyone to hang out at MPCC and play 9 under all sorts of wind conditions, I'll volunteer!

[Tom Huckaby]

Jack:

I think it would be more genius to just do away with the overkill "chipping area" at the back of 9 and make it more real green space.  But then again, I'm a shlep and Strantz was a genius.  So side with him.  I just do know I sure as hell wasn't screaming his praises when my ball went down into that god damn stupid ass swale, er I mean genius chipping area.  

As for Pasa v. MPCC Shore, my equally humble and likely less educated opinion stands.  But I note your disagreement.

 

TH

ps - you guys got VERY VERY lucky if you found pace of play faster at MPCC Shore than Pasa... wow... you must have been killing each other at the latter!  My experience - which I believe jives with Mr. Huntley's - is that pace of play is a big issue at the Shore.  Every round I've played there has included a bottleneck at 7, waiting for at least two groups on the tee... and other long waits... interesting.

[Kalen Braley]

And if John isn't available Bob, I'll volunteer as well!!!   

Tom,

I did notice that chipping area behind the green and thought it made sense give the wind direction we had that day.  Audible yuks on your true feelings about it...but Mr. Stranz could have just made it native area for you so you'd be stuck behind a rock or something!!

Pace of play was great for our group at MPCC, right at about 4 hours.  Can't recall having to wait on any tee, just fantastic!!

[Marty Bonnar]

Ok,
so I've only ever played the Shore just the once and I freely admit to being in awe of both my host and the eedjit he made us play with .

My impressions were:
The course overall is lovely and Mike S's work is among my favourite new design/construction work I've seen anywhere in the world.

However, to use one of my (in)famous tortured analogies, I definitely remember having a feeling of some bi-polarity, coupled with a tinge of schizophrenia all smeared over with a not insubstantial amount of paranoia.

Let me explain:
To me, there was too strong a contrast between the 'old' holes and the 'new' holes. Very much reminded me for example of say, The EDEN  (Bob, I'm sure you'll understand!)

I don't mind when a golf course displays mutiple personalities, but I do prefer a more 'singular' feeling. Of course, I like the 'every hole having a character of its own' philosophy, but I also enjoy a course displaying a certain 'one-ness' of execution.

Let me re-state though, the Shore has some CRACKING GOOD GOLF HOLES and is soooo worthy of most hearty appreciation. A very fitting epitaph. Long may it prosper.

cheers,
FBD.

[Lou_Duran]

Questions:

1.  Is the aerial currently loaded in Google Maps that of the pre-Stranz Shore?

2.  Anyone else have any trouble panning and enlarging on Mapquest?

3.  Can someone provide a link to a current Shore aerial/routing?

[Kalen Braley]

Questions:

1.  Is the aerial currently loaded in Google Maps that of the pre-Stranz Shore?

2.  Anyone else have any trouble panning and enlarging on Mapquest?

3.  Can someone provide a link to a current Shore aerial/routing?

Sure Lou,

1)  Yes its the old routing, pre-stanz

2)  I don't use Mapquest, it sucketh!!

3)  This link will get you to the current course.  The birds eye view is especially nice.     http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=36.601128~-121.951761&style=h&lvl=14&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=25009625&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

[J_ Crisham]

Tom,
          I must admit that my round at MPCC took 5 hours. My partner David Stamm, and I were getting our brains beaten in by Bill McBride and our host, Bob Moran?. We were using the "stall technique"to stem the flow of blood- it didn't work. Stamm kept telling me "We'll get em on the next hole". I felt  David assumed I might actually start to contribute if he kept the rally cry going. By the time I got to the halfway house and sampled the best homemade cookies I've ever had, the fight went out of me!

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,
          I must admit that my round at MPCC took 5 hours. My partner David Stamm, and I were getting our brains beaten in by Bill McBride and our host, Bob Moran?. We were using the "stall technique"to stem the flow of blood- it didn't work. Stamm kept telling me "We'll get em on the next hole". I felt  David assumed I might actually start to contribute if he kept the rally cry going. By the time I got to the halfway house and sampled the best homemade cookies I've ever had, the fight went out of me!

Jack - great stuff!  I too must admit that I've never had any problem with a round at MPCC taking too long, given I was never in any hurry for any of them ever to end!  But that pace of play issue does exist.  I can't really figure out why the bottleneck occurs at 7, other than it is a tough hole... but it always does seem to occur.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,
          I must admit that my round at MPCC took 5 hours. My partner David Stamm, and I were getting our brains beaten in by Bill McBride and our host, Bob Moran?. We were using the "stall technique"to stem the flow of blood- it didn't work. Stamm kept telling me "We'll get em on the next hole". I felt  David assumed I might actually start to contribute if he kept the rally cry going. By the time I got to the halfway house and sampled the best homemade cookies I've ever had, the fight went out of me!

Jack - great stuff!  I too must admit that I've never had any problem with a round at MPCC taking too long, given I was never in any hurry for any of them ever to end!  But that pace of play issue does exist.  I can't really figure out why the bottleneck occurs at 7, other than it is a tough hole... but it always does seem to occur.

TH

Gee,

I bet its got absolutly nothing to do with the best on course snack shack I've ever seen and wanting to just relax there and take it all in.      

[Lou_Duran]

Thanks Kalen.

[David Stamm]

Tom,
          I must admit that my round at MPCC took 5 hours. My partner David Stamm, and I were getting our brains beaten in by Bill McBride and our host, Bob Moran?. We were using the "stall technique"to stem the flow of blood- it didn't work. Stamm kept telling me "We'll get em on the next hole". I felt  David assumed I might actually start to contribute if he kept the rally cry going. By the time I got to the halfway house and sampled the best homemade cookies I've ever had, the fight went out of me!

Jack, I seem to remember saying to you "I'm sorry" alot. Between my foozles, shanks and topped shots, I felt sorry for the 3 of you for being witnesses to such a debacle. Honestly, I'm a better player than what I displayed during that week. I had a sudden loss of confidence right before coming up that week that left me feeling more nervous than the day of my wedding. In any case, no excuses, I just played horribly that week. I'm not sure if either of us had played alot better if it would've made a difference. Bill played out of his mind. I hope you give me another chance to redeem myself, Jack.

[Bob Jenkins]

Lou, Kalen,

That site of www.maps.live.com is the best way by far to view many courses, especially on the bird's eye view alternative. I just had a look at the Shore on there and it came back to me. I can now appreciate Bob's suggestions except for 9. It would appear to be difficult to make it into a par 4.

[Tim Bert]

And if John isn't available Bob, I'll volunteer as well!!!   


Pace of play was great for our group at MPCC, right at about 4 hours.  Can't recall having to wait on any tee, just fantastic!!

I think I was a key contributor to this pace, as I was picking up my ball every other hole on the back nine.

As for #9, I would NEVER want to have to play this beast from the tips.  From the shorter tees our group played, I didn't think it was a bad hole at all and I thought the over-the-top green worked well from that distance.  I would tend to agree that the hole is a bit much from the back tees and might make better sense extended to a short, par 4.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,
          I must admit that my round at MPCC took 5 hours. My partner David Stamm, and I were getting our brains beaten in by Bill McBride and our host, Bob Moran?. We were using the "stall technique"to stem the flow of blood- it didn't work. Stamm kept telling me "We'll get em on the next hole". I felt  David assumed I might actually start to contribute if he kept the rally cry going. By the time I got to the halfway house and sampled the best homemade cookies I've ever had, the fight went out of me!

Jack, I seem to remember saying to you "I'm sorry" alot. Between my foozles, shanks and topped shots, I felt sorry for the 3 of you for being witnesses to such a debacle. Honestly, I'm a better player than what I displayed during that week. I had a sudden loss of confidence right before coming up that week that left me feeling more nervous than the day of my wedding. In any case, no excuses, I just played horribly that week. I'm not sure if either of us had played alot better if it would've made a difference. Bill played out of his mind. I hope you give me another chance to redeem myself, Jack.

Guys,

I wouldn't fall for this...he creamed Steve and I at Pajaro and put the screws to us.  Perhaps he was off on Saturday afternoon, but he sure brought the wood Friday morning.   

[Matt_Cohn]

I would tend to agree that the hole is a bit much from the back tees and might make better sense extended to a short, par 4.

It's too long, so you want to make it longer?

[Tim Bert]

I would tend to agree that the hole is a bit much from the back tees and might make better sense extended to a short, par 4.

It's too long, so you want to make it longer?

Matt - I don't think I specifically said it was too long.  I called it a beast, and I said it is a bit much.  As much of that was based off of Bob's stories about the hole in competition as anything else.  As I said in my post, I think the hole is really cool from the more forward tees.  Length wouldn't be an issue from any tee I would ever play at the course.

I do think it is in a cool setting for a short par 4, and I think the green would be much more fitting for a hole that played a half stroke below its par vs. a hole that plays a half stroke above.  Since the course already has 4 other really good par 3s, I wouldn't have a problem with them making this a par 4 if they had the room to stretch it out just a bit.

[Matt_Cohn]

I would tend to agree that the hole is a bit much from the back tees and might make better sense extended to a short, par 4.

It's too long, so you want to make it longer?

Matt - I don't think I specifically said it was too long.  I called it a beast, and I said it is a bit much.  As much of that was based off of Bob's stories about the hole in competition as anything else.  As I said in my post, I think the hole is really cool from the more forward tees.  Length wouldn't be an issue from any tee I would ever play at the course.

I do think it is in a cool setting for a short par 4, and I think the green would be much more fitting for a hole that played a half stroke below its par vs. a hole that plays a half stroke above.  Since the course already has 4 other really good par 3s, I wouldn't have a problem with them making this a par 4 if they had the room to stretch it out just a bit.

Are you talking about #16 at Cypress Point or #9 at MPCC? I just don't agree with your argument,  especially with Cypress Point sitting a mile away - literally in view! - reminding us all of why a hole that's "a bit much" is sometimes exactly right.

[Tim Bert]

I would tend to agree that the hole is a bit much from the back tees and might make better sense extended to a short, par 4.

It's too long, so you want to make it longer?

Matt - I don't think I specifically said it was too long.  I called it a beast, and I said it is a bit much.  As much of that was based off of Bob's stories about the hole in competition as anything else.  As I said in my post, I think the hole is really cool from the more forward tees.  Length wouldn't be an issue from any tee I would ever play at the course.

I do think it is in a cool setting for a short par 4, and I think the green would be much more fitting for a hole that played a half stroke below its par vs. a hole that plays a half stroke above.  Since the course already has 4 other really good par 3s, I wouldn't have a problem with them making this a par 4 if they had the room to stretch it out just a bit.

Are you talking about #16 at Cypress Point or #9 at MPCC? I just don't agree with your argument,  especially with Cypress Point sitting a mile away - literally in view! - reminding us all of why a hole that's "a bit much" is sometimes exactly right.

Matt - I don't have a dog in this fight on #9.  I've said twice in two posts that from the tee I played I enjoy the hole.  I was simply agreeing with others' assessment that it would make for a nice par 4.  I understand their point of view.

[Matt_Cohn]

Oh. Lol. Well then I agree with you, but for the same reasons.   

[David Stamm]

Tom,
          I must admit that my round at MPCC took 5 hours. My partner David Stamm, and I were getting our brains beaten in by Bill McBride and our host, Bob Moran?. We were using the "stall technique"to stem the flow of blood- it didn't work. Stamm kept telling me "We'll get em on the next hole". I felt  David assumed I might actually start to contribute if he kept the rally cry going. By the time I got to the halfway house and sampled the best homemade cookies I've ever had, the fight went out of me!

Jack, I seem to remember saying to you "I'm sorry" alot. Between my foozles, shanks and topped shots, I felt sorry for the 3 of you for being witnesses to such a debacle. Honestly, I'm a better player than what I displayed during that week. I had a sudden loss of confidence right before coming up that week that left me feeling more nervous than the day of my wedding. In any case, no excuses, I just played horribly that week. I'm not sure if either of us had played alot better if it would've made a difference. Bill played out of his mind. I hope you give me another chance to redeem myself, Jack.

Guys,

I wouldn't fall for this...he creamed Steve and I at Pajaro and put the screws to us.  Perhaps he was off on Saturday afternoon, but he sure brought the wood Friday morning.   

Kalen, thanks for the kind words. Fri morning was more in line with how I play, I just don't do it consistently enough. If you ask Spaulding, he would say it's because I'm a head case and I just can't seem to ever get out of my own way. A premise I would tend to agree with. 


Sorry, Bob. Back to the subject of this thread. I'm surprised by the comments on 9. Yes, it is a very tough par 3. I'm fine with it. For the most part we accept the par 4.5 hole idea. Why not a 3.5? I think the green on 9 is fantastic. I especially like the collection areas.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,
          I must admit that my round at MPCC took 5 hours. My partner David Stamm, and I were getting our brains beaten in by Bill McBride and our host, Bob Moran?. We were using the "stall technique"to stem the flow of blood- it didn't work. Stamm kept telling me "We'll get em on the next hole". I felt  David assumed I might actually start to contribute if he kept the rally cry going. By the time I got to the halfway house and sampled the best homemade cookies I've ever had, the fight went out of me!

Jack - great stuff!  I too must admit that I've never had any problem with a round at MPCC taking too long, given I was never in any hurry for any of them ever to end!  But that pace of play issue does exist.  I can't really figure out why the bottleneck occurs at 7, other than it is a tough hole... but it always does seem to occur.

TH

Gee,

I bet its got absolutly nothing to do with the best on course snack shack I've ever seen and wanting to just relax there and take it all in.      

Sorry guys - that is a great halfway house, for sure, but that is NOT the reason for the constant backup on 7.  In fact, I've never seen anyone linger in said halfway house...although that certainly would be nice.  Nope, most wait on the tee... and wait... and wait... and wait....

Bob can confirm this.

TH

[Mike Benham]

Would the 9th hole be more acceptable if there wasn't the forced carry over the native area?  From the back tees, it gives the feeling of a blind tee shot ...

If you had clear view of the green, with fairway/rough area between the tee box and the green, would that make the hole more acceptable?

[Bob_Huntley]

Would the 9th hole be more acceptable if there wasn't the forced carry over the native area?  From the back tees, it gives the feeling of a blind tee shot ...

If you had clear view of the green, with fairway/rough area between the tee box and the green, would that make the hole more acceptable?

Mike,

Yes.

Bob

[David Stamm]

There is no doubt the hole is tough. But there is a bailout to the left, very much like another hole down the road.