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Adam Russell

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Colorado's Gems
« on: May 06, 2008, 10:23:08 AM »
Alright treehouse, I need some help. I'm going out to Colorado, and I want to play some courses. I want to play a few of the ones that make all the mag. lists, but I definitely want to see others. Any ideas? Location doesn't really matter, just the quality of the golf.
The only way that I could figure they could improve upon Coca-Cola, one of life's most delightful elixirs, which studies prove will heal the sick and occasionally raise the dead, is to put rum or bourbon in it.” -Lewis Grizzard

Kirk Gill

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Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 12:24:30 PM »
No one else has stepped up to answer you, Adam, so I'll give it a try. Obviously, where you play will in large part depend on the access you have to private clubs. Since I can't help you there, all I can do is point out some good public offerings around the state, which you could probably obtain from your mag listings.

In the Denver area there are many public offerings, some of which might be of interest. All have been discussed to a greater or lesser degree before on this forum.

Murphy Creek - Ken Kavanaugh design. A personal favorite.
Riverdale Dunes - Pete and Perry Dye. A well-done, fun, links-style layout.
Fossil Trace - A really interesting Engh course shoehorned into a tough
                          property. Some memorable holes.

There are more, some of which are more admired than others. For instance you used to find Arrowhead golf club on some "best of" lists, but that's mainly because of the spectacular views, and not so much because of the golf, per se.

A broader, statewide perspective brings up courses like Red Sky Ranch (one Norman, one Fazio), Lakota Canyon, The Broadmoor, Redlands Mesa, Walking Stick, Cougar Canyon. All are beloved by some. And there are many more that I'm not listing.

If you say what type of courses you're looking to play, old-school, modern, public, private, etc., you can narrow it down some.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Mark Smolens

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Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 01:08:34 PM »
I've only played two private clubs in Colorado.  One (Lake Valley) in Boulder is a nice member's club, but probably not what you're looking for -- but the other is Ballneal.  My guess is that Mr. O'Neal would allow you to play if you wrote him a nice letter, and there are I believe a couple of members who post on this site. . .  If you enjoy playing links golf, you can't do much better in the States than Ballyneal.

Adam Russell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 01:16:18 PM »
Great guys, thanks for the info so far. I looking for some good Colorado public courses that may not ever make a Golfweek or Digest state list, but are relatively (under $50) cheap and a "hidden gem". Something akin to a Devil's Thumb, if that helps...
The only way that I could figure they could improve upon Coca-Cola, one of life's most delightful elixirs, which studies prove will heal the sick and occasionally raise the dead, is to put rum or bourbon in it.” -Lewis Grizzard

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2008, 01:16:55 PM »
From what I've read, Riverdale Dunes was a product of the Dye's where Tom Doak had some creative license (See Jim Urbana's interview on this website).    

Obviously, Flynn's Cherry Hills is not to be missed if the opportunity presents itself.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2008, 01:26:07 PM »
I have a friend in Denver and the two courses that stand out in my visits are the Golf Club at Bear Dance south of Denver and the Raven at Three Peaks west of Denver up in the Rockies. An inexpensive hidden gem northwest of Denver was Mariana Butte Golf Course.

Here's a link to a Colorado gof mag that has maps and descriptions:

http://www.coloradoavidgolfer.com/cag/courses
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 01:27:23 PM »
In the metro Denver area for your price range (if you are walking) your best bets are

Riverdale Dunes
Murphy Creek
Fossil Trace (slightly out of your price range)
Buffalo Run


Cheers,
Brad
 

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 01:34:51 PM »
I'll second Buffalo Run.

 It's been awhile since I was there, but it was a very enjoyable pseudo-links and the wind howled.

Have they built housing up around that area and has that detracted from the course at all?
Integrity in the moment of choice

Tim Pitner

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Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2008, 01:51:37 PM »
I'll second Buffalo Run.

 It's been awhile since I was there, but it was a very enjoyable pseudo-links and the wind howled.

Have they built housing up around that area and has that detracted from the course at all?

Yes, unfortunately so.  I still enjoy Buffalo Run but the experience is diminished. 

In the Denver area, Riverdale Dunes is still under $50 and is the best public, IMO.  I also like a course called Heritage at Westmoor, a Hurdzan/Fry course in Westminster.  I personally prefer playing it to Murphy Creek or Fossil Trace, but I'm in the minority there.  Fox Hollow in Lakewood has some goofy holes, but it gives you the feel of a mountain course in the Denver suburbs and should be in the $50 range. 

Bear Dance and most mountain courses will be over $50.  A decent one that is somewhat less expensive than most is River Valley Ranch, a Morrish course in Carbondale, near Aspen.  Keystone Ranch ( RTJ II) is one of my favorite mountain courses--it's walkable (a rarity) and enjoys a very peaceful setting in a mountain valley.  I'm also a fan of the back 9 at the Raven (but I don't like to talk about it when Doug Wright is present). 

Matt_Ward

Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2008, 01:53:48 PM »
Adam:

As an unabashed fan of The Centennial State I offer the following public course options. The private will follow.

Lakota Canyon (New Castle) / Jim Engh

Red Sky Ranch (Wolcott) / Greg Norman Course

I also second what Tim L mentioned ...

Bear Dance (Larkspur) &

Raven at Three Peaks (Silverthorne)

Andy, you mentioned Devil's Thumb in Delta which is very inexpensive -- you should also include Redlands Mesa in neargy Grand Junction by Engh. In Steamboat Springs you should play Keith Foster's Haymaker. One other choice worth including is in the Fort Collins area -- play Art Schaupeter's Highland Meadows in Windsor.

Jay Moorish also did a good job -- although I'm not a fan of the pedestrian routing scheme in circular ovals at Vista Ridge -- just north of Denver.

I also like what Dye did with Riverdale Dunes and adding Murphy's Creek is also worth doing since the layout will host this year's USGA Pub Links event.

On the public side the scale and diversity of Colorado golf is very tough to beat.


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2008, 03:28:51 PM »
If your in Western Colorado I can definitly 2nd that Redlands and Lakota are very much worth the play.  Even if living in the Denver area, they are worth every effort to get over and see them.

Kirk Gill

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Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2008, 03:42:01 PM »
I don't have any idea of when it will be ready for play, but the former Mira Vista course being re-done by Tom Doak and his team is under construction, with a mission to make good golf affordable. Here's a link to the Colorado Golf Association "new course" page with some pictures of the construction.

http://www.cogolf.org/iframe.php?URL=new-course/newcourse.htm

And I'll "third" Buffalo Run as an enjoyable, inexpensive round of golf that really has suffered since the housing has intruded more forcefully.

You might also want to take a look at  Wellshire GC, a Ross design that is now a Denver muni. Others would be better able to tell you how much Ross is still on the ground there.

Mark Smolens - Lake Valley is private now? I used to play there a lot when I was in college. You characterized it pretty well. We also used to play at Haystack Mountain on occasion, which is listed on pasturegolf.com, if I'm not mistaken, and was the site of much revelry back in the day........
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2008, 03:44:14 PM »
  I'm also a fan of the back 9 at the Raven (but I don't like to talk about it when Doug Wright is present). 

I'm present Tim--better watch it!  >:( ;)

I'd select Breckenridge over both Keystone Ranch and The Raven at Three Peaks if you're looking for mountain golf. Lakota is good too; I think Red Sky is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of your price range.

My calls for public in the Denver area: Riverdale Dunes (note there's an adjacent Riverdale course called Riverdale Knolls that you don't want any part of), Bear Dance (Ridge at Casle Pines North is a reasonable facsimile of Bear Dance with unfortunate housing on the front side) and Fossil Trace, followed by Murphy Creek, Green Valley  Ranch, Buffalo Run (a tossup among those three for me).

Outside of Denver, non-mountain publics are Antler Creek notheast of Colorado Springs, Walking Stick in Pueblo and (my personal hidden gem) Grandote Peaks  in little La Veta. I haven't played the new Nicklaus Cougar Canyon in Trinidad.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2008, 03:52:10 PM »
I don't have any idea of when it will be ready for play, but the former Mira Vista course being re-done by Tom Doak and his team is under construction, with a mission to make good golf affordable. Here's a link to the Colorado Golf Association "new course" page with some pictures of the construction.

http://www.cogolf.org/iframe.php?URL=new-course/newcourse.htm

And I'll "third" Buffalo Run as an enjoyable, inexpensive round of golf that really has suffered since the housing has intruded more forcefully.

You might also want to take a look at  Wellshire GC, a Ross design that is now a Denver muni. Others would be better able to tell you how much Ross is still on the ground there.

Kirk I think the new Mira Vista course is due late 2009--can't wait!

As for Wellshire, the original Ross layout is there (I have the Ross drawings from 1927); unfortunately, much of the good stuff has been buried deeper than DR himself, a victim of municipal neglect. We need one of us to win Powerball so we could restore it a la Wilmington NC Municipal.   

Twitter: @Deneuchre

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2008, 07:46:41 PM »
Kirk:  Adam is WORKING on the former Mira Vista as an intern this summer, so he can play all the dirt golf he wants there -- I think he's looking for other options.  The course is pretty much all shaped now and they are starting to plant holes, which should mean a mid-2009 opening.

Matt:  The young man is working, so he's not going to play nearly all of the courses you listed.  I'm sure we would all be interested in hearing your top three.

Andy Troeger

Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2008, 07:52:41 PM »
Adam,
I think you can probably play many different courses without going wrong, but if you can take two days to go see Redlands Mesa and Lakota Canyon I would also highly recommend them. Its a straight shot down I-70 from Denver. I also second Doug's mention of Grandote Peaks, but all of those are a fair drive from Denver. I'm not as familiar with public courses near Denver; Ridge at Castle Pines North has a nice back nine but I would guess there are better options. GC at Bear Dance is one I want to see one of these times when I head up there.

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2008, 08:07:42 PM »
Kirk:  Adam is WORKING on the former Mira Vista as an intern this summer,

Well well. In that case I'd suggest Riverdale Dunes as a first stop so he can see all the mistakes young Tom Doak made on his first course... ;)

Adam send me an IM sometime.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2008, 08:30:40 PM »
Kirk:  Adam is WORKING on the former Mira Vista as an intern this summer, so he can play all the dirt golf he wants there -- I think he's looking for other options.  The course is pretty much all shaped now and they are starting to plant holes, which should mean a mid-2009 opening.

Doh !                 

That's what I get for opening my big mouth !

Can't wait to see it.............
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2008, 11:04:18 AM »
Kirk:  Adam is WORKING on the former Mira Vista as an intern this summer,

Well well. In that case I'd suggest Riverdale Dunes as a first stop so he can see all the mistakes young Tom Doak made on his first course... ;)


Doug,

I think it was on this very site that Mr. Doak pointed out that he had nothing to do with #15 at RD ;)

BTW, since moving, I already miss the course options up in that part of the country. 

Cheers

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2008, 11:24:20 AM »
Kirk:  Adam is WORKING on the former Mira Vista as an intern this summer,

Well well. In that case I'd suggest Riverdale Dunes as a first stop so he can see all the mistakes young Tom Doak made on his first course... ;)


Doug,

I think it was on this very site that Mr. Doak pointed out that he had nothing to do with #15 at RD ;)

Wyatt,

That's one of the reasons that Riverdale Dunes is an interesting case study IMO. It's a schizoid course, with some work done by young Mr. Doak and some work done by young Mr. Perry Dye. One can tell the difference....   
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2008, 11:28:23 AM »
If you are in the southwest you should venture to Farmington, NM (Piñon Hills) — Redlands Mesa in Grand Junction and The Hideout in Monticello, UT. All within 2 hours of one another...a short drive from Durango.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 11:56:35 AM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2008, 11:54:33 AM »
My take on must plays:

Colorado

Sanctuary
Lakota Canyon
Redlands Mesa

New Mexico

Black Mesa
Pinon Hills
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2008, 12:12:17 PM »
My take on must plays:

Colorado

Sanctuary

Not exactly in the public, under $50 category.

Mike Bowline

Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2008, 12:14:37 PM »
Adam, I, too am working as an intern at the old Mira Vista in Denver. Once you get to Denver, I will basically confirm what most of the previous posts have indicated as must-plays. The golf in CO is quite remarkable and I am sure you will enjoy your time here.

P.S. Bring your work gloves, thick leather palms preferred ;D

Matt_Ward

Re: Colorado's Gems
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2008, 12:32:00 PM »
Adam:

As per Tom's thoughts regarding price and quality ...

Highland Meadows is a fine layout by Schaupeter in Windsor and won't break the bank account.

You should also check out what Rick Phelps did with Antler Creek in Falcon -- just outside Colorado Springs. Just make sure to play the correct tees for your game.

You've played Devil's Thumb in Delta which is well done and very reasonable.

Lakota Canyon is also worth a play because it doesn't charge anywhere near what the mountain layouts in and around Vail / Aspen charge.

You can send me an offline message if you need further info.