[Scott_Park]

As we all know, new greens can be exceptionally firm to the point that holding anything more than a wedge is very difficult.  My question is how long does it take to get the firmness to appropriate levels, and by appropriate I mean a green that will hold a well struck 5-iron

Thanks,

Scott

[jeffwarne]

a well struck 5 iron by whom?

[Tom Jefferson]

And, what type of turf have these greens?  Bent?  Or fescue, as we have here at Bandon?

These greens never 'soften', and we can thank the golf gods for that!

Tom

[Patrick_Mucci]

Scott Park,

Two to Five years depending upon Mother Nature, maintainance practices and luck.

[Scott_Park]

Some added detail-

-the greens are A4 bent
-location is in between Raleigh and Tobacco Road
-5 iron shot hit by a low handicap playing a Pro V1, Nike One or similar ball

Thanks

[Jason Topp]

Scott:

I do not know the answer to your question but can give you some help with the perspective held by many here.

Many people here would take the view that greens should never soften.  The idea is that firm greens and surrounds make the game more interesting because it makes the angle from which you approach more important and makes the contours on the green and on the approach more important.  Links courses and Sandbelt courses in Australia are extremely firm.  In Austalia people have no hesitation pulling a pull cart across the green.

I think it depends on the design.  Part 1 of an interview on the subject is below and will give some background if you are not familiar with it.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/interviewanderson.html

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

We put our paspalum greens in in 2002 and ya still don't head-hunt pins even with a wedge here at The Ocean Course.  Hard and fast...

[Dan Herrmann]

Jason - Amen to that.  We've been waiting for 4 years for firm greens/surrounds, and we've finally got 'em.  I'd hazard a guess that 95% of the members are thrilled.

[Pete Lavallee]

I've heard the theory advanced that new greens are completely free of thatch and therefore will soften over time as thatch builds up. Certainly an aggresive thatch maintenance program could keep the greens firmer, longer.

[Matthew Hunt]

And, what type of turf have these greens?  Bent?  Or fescue, as we have here at Bandon?

These greens never 'soften', and we can thank the golf gods for that!

Tom

What course at Bandon are you super at?

[Scott_Park]

Jason,

thanks for the link to that interview- very smart on the part of the super.

I am certainly in the camp of having firm greens.  By that I mean that a shot must be hit solidly to hold the green plus it should be difficult to even find your ball mark.  On this point I look to Oakmont and Pinehurst #2 as two courses that have firmness at the correct level.  Ideally, a "well struck" shot will hit the green, take one hop and then settle; rarely should a ball back up.

Shots hit in to new greens seem to take a skip forward on their first bounce and then release 50 or 60 feet. 

It sounds like some top dressing and normal green maturation will take care of this, but my question reamins- how long does this usually take?

thanks

[Tom Jefferson]

Mathew Hunt;
Let me see.............5 superintendents here; one for each course, one for Old Mac construction and overall supt., and then one......to manage everything that is left of the 2500 acres.

It is a privilege to work with the following.....

Jeff Sutherland, Pac Dunes
Eric Johnson, Bandon Dunes
Scott Huntley, Bandon Trails
Ken Nice, Resort and Old Mac.

Tom Jefferson, Common Grounds

[Bradley Anderson]

They're "putting" greens not "holding" greens. And generally the better they hold, the poorer they putt.

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