[Dan Herrmann]

You hear it all the time on the PGA TOUR - a player will fawn over a course design, saying,"It's all there, right in front of you."

This got me thinking.   Why is that a compliment to a course design? 

Sure - I'll like a breather hole once in a while during a round where it's all "there, right in front of you".  But I also appreciate deception, seduction, and temptation too.  Tricky angles, confusion, and a feeling of being outsmarted are what can make a hole a lot of fun.

But the TOUR guys seem to like things a bit more tame.

What do you think?

[John Moore II]

Tour guys say that because they like to hit 325 yd drives on every hole and not have to worry about whats out there. Then hit wedges into every green. They want to see every type of trouble possible. Seems that most of the courses that aren't designed like that are the ones that host majors. Its not all in front of you are Augusta that I know of, PInehurst, Pebble, and so forth. Thats why those courses are difficult, it makes the players think, they don't like that.

[Michael Whitaker]

Because they appreciate courses that "reward" their skill at hitting shots to a given point at a given distance. They do not like targets they cannot see or "unfair" results to what they consider a well struck shot. That's why most of the touring pros appreciate courses that reward their skillset and resent those that do not.

[Lou_Duran]

Mike,

I think that most people who play golf for a living can adjust without too much trouble to blind and semi-blind shots.  The biggest issue they have is with green designs that severly punish a shot that's lands two or three paces from another which feeds next to the hole.  The better pros may also not like those greens that funnel everything close to the hole.

Being a visual person and not having great distance control, I prefer being able to see my target.  Uphill shots including chips and some putts are typically more difficult for me than going the other way.

Mr. Moore,

I think in the case of Augusta and Pinehurst, those courses are difficult because the severe green speeds and contours, not because one can't see the target.  Pebble Beach in the summer and most other U.S. major courses are difficult because of extraordinarily high rough, narrow fairways, firm conditions, fast greens, and the added pressure of what the winner stands to win or lose.

Pros aren't out there for entertainment.  They are taking an examination where the outcome/score has serious impact.   Each pro likely prefers a setup which suits his strength.  Some of the better shotmakers may like more wind, firmer conditions, and some trickery in order to separate most of the field.

I suspect that the vast majority of golfers, pros and amateurs, prefer to be able to see their target.  Only a small percentage look for a great architectural adventure.  And even among this small group, if they are piling up three digit scores and five hour rounds, I doubt that they think highly of cutesy, peek-a-boo features.     

[Mike Bowline]

Pros aren't out there for entertainment.  They are taking an examination where the outcome/score has serious impact.   Each pro likely prefers a setup which suits his strength.  Some of the better shotmakers may like more wind, firmer conditions, and some trickery in order to separate most of the field.

That is beautifully stated.

[John Moore II]

Mr. Moore,

I think in the case of Augusta and Pinehurst, those courses are difficult because the severe green speeds and contours, not because one can't see the target.  Pebble Beach in the summer and most other U.S. major courses are difficult because of extraordinarily high rough, narrow fairways, firm conditions, fast greens, and the added pressure of what the winner stands to win or lose.     

Lou--these factors you mention take away from being able to simply place the ball where necessary every time and causes the player to get bounces and such that stops the course from "being right in front of you."

[John Kavanaugh]

I have seen plenty of textbook strategic holes with fairway bunker left, greenside bunker right that would be considered "right in front" of you architectural experts.  Any course where a double digit handicap can tell you the architectural merits after one play has to have it "right there in front of you" or how could they know what they have seen.  Right there in front of you relates more to charm than architecture.

[BCrosby]

The cliche is cousins with the cliche "It's tough but fair." Both are descriptive of courses that pros tend to like. They like such courses because they assure a rational connection between shot execution and outcomes.

In answer to your question, when people talk that way they mean to be complimentary. When I hear the phrase, warning bells start ringing in my head. If pros (or anyone else) say that about a course, I worry that it's pretty dull stuff.

Bob

[Dan Herrmann]

Bob - I too hear the same warning bells

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Dan;

  It seems like a little bit of backhanded compliment, in my book.  Again, what others have said here pretty much sums up what I was going to say.; my impression is, it's obvious on the tee what you need to do in order to make a score. 
Conversely, places like Lederach, which are almost the antithesis of this, are so much more fun, but once or twice around there, and you know where to hit the ball, where to miss it.

I worked at a club a few years ago that had an architect who felt that "a well struck shot should stay on the golf course".  (I'm not giving the course, or the architect), but it kind of sums up this "in front of you" idea.  It can make for boring golf, frankly.   

[George Pazin]

I have seen plenty of textbook strategic holes with fairway bunker left, greenside bunker right that would be considered "right in front" of you architectural experts.

I'd guess many would cite a difference between "plenty of textbook strategic holes with fairway bunker left, greenside bunker right that would be considered "right in front" of you architectural experts" and "It's all there".

But then you do love to twist words, John.

[RichMacafee]

I'm not sure the guys that give the 'it's all right there in front of you' answer really even know what it means themselves. I think it's a cliche that they have heard others say, and think is a compliment/safe answer to give in an interview.

I would like to hear the next question be: " so what does right there in front of you mean and why do you like that?" I'm pretty sure most would be lost for words and struggle to give an answer.

[BCrosby]

I'm not sure the guys that give the 'it's all right there in front of you' answer really even know what it means themselves. I think it's a cliche that they have heard others say, and think is a compliment/safe answer to give in an interview.

I would like to hear the next question be: " so what does right there in front of you mean and why do you like that?" I'm pretty sure most would be lost for words and struggle to give an answer.

Exactly so. Pros, sanctioning bodies, TV announcers, sponsors, everday golfers, etc. have a shockingly poor grasp of basic architectural concepts. You see it in their responses to the kinds of questions you note above. If you ask them why they like a hole, but you tell them they can't talk about conditioning or resistance to scoring, you get a lot of uncomfortable hemming and hawing.

[Michael Whitaker]

Pros aren't out there for entertainment.  They are taking an examination where the outcome/score has serious impact.   Each pro likely prefers a setup which suits his strength.  Some of the better shotmakers may like more wind, firmer conditions, and some trickery in order to separate most of the field.

Lou - That's kind of what I was trying to say... they each have a skillset that they want to see rewarded when they hit "well struck" shots. The touring pros I know are most frustrated when they play a course that does not "reward" their well struck shots in a way they deem "fair." They go a bit crazy when they play a course that, in their opinion, over-rewards "bad" shots or under-rewards "good" shots. As you say, it's all business for them.

[Steve Kline]

I'm not sure the guys that give the 'it's all right there in front of you' answer really even know what it means themselves. I think it's a cliche that they have heard others say, and think is a compliment/safe answer to give in an interview.

I would like to hear the next question be: " so what does right there in front of you mean and why do you like that?" I'm pretty sure most would be lost for words and struggle to give an answer.

Rees Jones has subliminally tricked them into saying it. See the interview with him in the June issue of Golf Digest (I believe). His architectural viewpoint is exactly the "right there in front you" mantra.

There is nothing more boring in golf than that in my opinion.

[Dan Herrmann]

Steve, I completely agree with you.

But methinks the treehouse may be in the minority on this one. 

[David Stamm]

You hear it all the time on the PGA TOUR - a player will fawn over a course design, saying,"It's all there, right in front of you."

This got me thinking.   Why is that a compliment to a course design? 

 

It's not.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()