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Bob Barriger

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2008, 08:32:41 PM »
Your highend privates like Calusa Pines, Naples National, Old Collier and maybe Hideout close at the end of April or May until the first of October.  Eastwood in Ft. Myers has recently been renovated and should be in good shape now. At first the reseeded greens had a nematode problem and were almost dirt only in January and  February but you could see grass growth coming thru. Plantation Golf and CC just north of the Ft. Myers airport is a pretty good Hurdzan/Frye design, albeit with a Centex home development around most of the golf course.  River Hall is a good choice, nothing real exciting but a decent golf course, I played it about 10 times from the soft opening thru Feb.  The price back then was great, $35 with cart, but in Feb the price had risen to around $75. Old Corkscrew is good also, but a pretty tough test. I tipped it a couple of times, 2.3 hdcp index and when I coldn't reach the par 4 10th with my best drive and 3 wood, took it to the next tee set up.  I wold try some of the newer housing development courses, Plantation, Quarry, River Hall, and a 36 hole complex just west of River Hall with 2 courses, a Cupp and a new Nicklaus course, name escapes me right now. Cupp course the better of the 2.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2008, 10:14:28 PM »
Bob,

That course would be Verandah. I played the Cupp course- Old Orange- and thought it was above average.  It is accessible through lastminutegolfer.com The Nicklaus Design course at Verandah is Whispering Oaks.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jason Topp

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2009, 11:56:53 AM »
Anyone played River Hall.  I am going to be at Fiddlesticks in a couple of weeks but need a course to play on one day because of a tournament.  These pictures look very nice.

Bryan Izatt

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2009, 09:59:32 PM »
Jason,

I played it at New Years and again last Sunday.  It's worth a look see.  A bit different look than other flat FL courses.  And, water is a lot less in play than most.  Wide corridors, little housing.  I think you'll find it a little too easy.  The price is reasonable in the p.m., although it's been crowded both times I played it.  If you want a better, more testing, course not too far away, you could try Old Corkscrew if you haven't already.  A bit more expensive.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2009, 10:33:45 PM »
Old Corkscrew rates range from 135-180 at golfnow.com


"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Bryan Izatt

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2009, 10:53:37 PM »
OK, OK, maybe a lot more expensive than River Hall's afternoon rate.   :o  Although, there was a $20 coupon in the local golf guide for Old Corkscrew and only a $10 coupon for River Hall.

Evan Fleisher

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2009, 08:07:46 AM »
Either one are great choices.
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Chris Simonson

Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2009, 01:06:47 PM »
Fyi, the Ritz-Carlton made a phone call and got me on a nice, private (somewhat private) course about 10 minutes from the hotel.  It had a number of snakes and allegators.  It was interesting. 

I can't remember the name of it, but if you're staying there, my suggestion would be to talk to the concierge.

Jason Topp

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2009, 01:08:36 PM »
Thanks everyone.  We are going to give River Hall a shot. 

Nicholas Coppolo

Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2009, 04:44:54 PM »
I play River Hall next week as well, I'll debrief with some more pics hopefully

Andy Troeger

Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2009, 09:13:18 AM »
I played Old Corkscrew and Eastwood last week. Old Corkscrew, as others have said, is very difficult, but I thought it was pretty good as long as you don't mind getting beaten up some. I still think Eastwood is a wonderful municipal track, but its hard to get a tee time. You can only make them one day in advance, and we couldn't get on until 2:16 on a Friday and played 16 holes before dark.

If one can access Calusa Pines it is as good as noted and a real treat.

Doug Wright

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2009, 11:16:31 AM »
I played Old Corkscrew and Eastwood last week. Old Corkscrew, as others have said, is very difficult, but I thought it was pretty good as long as you don't mind getting beaten up some. I still think Eastwood is a wonderful municipal track, but its hard to get a tee time. You can only make them one day in advance, and we couldn't get on until 2:16 on a Friday and played 16 holes before dark.

If one can access Calusa Pines it is as good as noted and a real treat.
\

I played Eastwood on Friday.  I liked the course, a muny designed by Devlin and Von Hagge. A decent driving course with good fairway and greenside bunkering. Some internal contouring on some greens. Par 3s a bit redundant but all in all not a bad course.

Has anyone played Fort Myers CC (Ross 1916), which I learned from the scorecard also is owned by the city? Given my affinity for Ross, I would have played there had I known about it (shame on me...).
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Evan Fleisher

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2009, 11:21:13 AM »
I played Old Corkscrew and Eastwood last week. Old Corkscrew, as others have said, is very difficult, but I thought it was pretty good as long as you don't mind getting beaten up some. I still think Eastwood is a wonderful municipal track, but its hard to get a tee time. You can only make them one day in advance, and we couldn't get on until 2:16 on a Friday and played 16 holes before dark.

If one can access Calusa Pines it is as good as noted and a real treat.
\

I played Eastwood on Friday.  I liked the course, a muny designed by Devlin and Von Hagge. A decent driving course with good fairway and greenside bunkering. Some internal contouring on some greens. Par 3s a bit redundant but all in all not a bad course.

Has anyone played Fort Myers CC (Ross 1916), which I learned from the scorecard also is owned by the city? Given my affinity for Ross, I would have played there had I known about it (shame on me...).

How was the conditioning at Eastwood?  I played there last June is it was horrible...to the point of detracting from the enjoyment of our round.  Just curious...
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Doug Wright

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2009, 11:32:19 AM »
How was the conditioning at Eastwood?  I played there last June is it was horrible...to the point of detracting from the enjoyment of our round.  Just curious...

Evan, It was fine. fairways were a little sparse in spots but really not too bad, and the greens were fine. A previous post on this thread indicated that the course had been redone in the past year or so.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

JC Jones

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2009, 05:16:54 PM »


Has anyone played Fort Myers CC (Ross 1916), which I learned from the scorecard also is owned by the city? Given my affinity for Ross, I would have played there had I known about it (shame on me...).

Id be curious to hear about this as I am moving to the area in July!
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Andy Troeger

Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2009, 07:23:30 PM »
Eastwood was in decent condition as Doug said--its a muni but all things considered I think its recovered pretty well. It did struggle a lot to get back to shape after the work was done from what I had heard so Evan's comments are not surprising.

I don't think I'd get too excited about Ft. Myers CC. I'm sure Ross fans would find things to appreciate, but I've never heard anything positive enough to make it worth a visit. I'd be curious if anyone has played it and Belleview Biltmore (Ross course near Clearwater) and which one they liked better.

Doug Wright

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2009, 07:41:29 PM »


Has anyone played Fort Myers CC (Ross 1916), which I learned from the scorecard also is owned by the city? Given my affinity for Ross, I would have played there had I known about it (shame on me...).

Id be curious to hear about this as I am moving to the area in July!

JC, I did a quick search and only found this from Michael Fay (of the Ross Society) from March 2007:

"Fort Meyers Country Club, right on route 41 in downtown Fort Meyers. Green fee of I think$ 35.00. They allow walkers. No two shots in the same direction. Nice set of greens."

I too would like to hear others' opinions about Fort Myers CC as I may get back to Fort Myers from time to time
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Jason Topp

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2009, 01:15:41 PM »
I just returned from my trip. 

We played two rounds at River Hall based on the pictures and descriptions.  I also played six rounds at Fiddlesticks.  My camera battery was dead and I forgot my recharger so I did not take pictures.

River Hall is a 2008 housing development club with almost no houses but a full tee sheet.  It has little water in play and is quite a contrast from typical Florida golf.

I think it is a course that is worthwhile for anyone to study because I think Love Design did so many things well with the course. 

First - there is a lovely angular theme to the shaping on the course.  This picture (from the earlier post) shows the bunker style:



An advantage of this bunkering (which I would have never have thought of) is that it provides stern penalties while still allowing my father to enter and exit without undue effort despite a number of physical limitations.

The angular theme is also present on the greens which tend to have more of a rectangular than rounded shape.


Second - the greens and green surrounds are terrific.  Without creating over the top contours, there are many spines running through greens, front to back slopes, side to side slopes etx.  Furthermore, there is plenty of short grass around the greens making for interesting recovery shots.

Third - greenside bunkering often eats into the greens themselves while usually allowing a ground game approach option.

Fourth - the course is meant to be and during my visit was - maintained very fast and firm.

Fifth - the course does not coddle the player.  There are few hidden grass areas right of the fairway or short/right of the green.  There are no containment mounds or other devices to keep the ball in play. I noticed few aiming bunkers or other artificial visual clues regarding how to play the course.

Finally - the course is playable for all but also provides an interesting challenge to the better player.  This is one course you should play a bit longer than your typical yardage because there are few if any carry hazards and the ball rolls 50 yards or so on a typical tee shot.

Despite all of these positives, the reaction of my group to the course was very mixed.  Visually, it is very difficult to make a course look interesting on a flat site with little artificial earth movement.  For the most part, each hole seemed similar to holes that had come before.

The holes that really stood out for me had hazards other than bunkers threatening the tee ball.  The ninth and 13th used an angled fairway edge to tempt an agressive tee shots to make par fives reachable.  The 17th is one of the best short par fours I have played with a severely sloped green guarded by pot bunkers which makes the preferred play off the tee vary with the pin posiition and weather.

Absent those thrills, each tee seemed a lot like others on the course. 

I think modern architects have done a terrific job of making courses playable - having learned from the extemely difficult Dye/Nicklaus designs of the 80's.  Many architects create terrific green complexes.

I do think architects should focus, if possible, on making courses not only playable, but interesting off the tee.    To my mind, this factor distinguishes the terrific courses of recent years, from others.  Ideally, the interest comes from hazards that allow for recovery shots.

One way to deal with such situations is a large series of bunkers similar to Southern Dunes in Orlando or Royal Dunes near Phoenix.   That approach, however, can be real punitive for the struggling golfer.  Another option is artificial mounding.  Stoneagle is another course with a unique approach to creating interest with width by using a series of native splotches in the middle of the course with fairways that run together.  I'm sure other approaches exist.



J_McKenzie

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2009, 02:24:00 PM »
Jason,

I work for Love Golf Design, although not in a design capacity, and I must say that I really appreciate and agree with your concise review of River Hall.  Given the limitations of the site, dead flat property that had to be clear cut and raised three feet throughout with fill-dirt for drainage, we are very pleased with the way the course turned out.  It's fun, it's playable, and there are some really good design features throughout.  It's interesting that you mention #17 because it was a hole that really presented some early design challeges.  It's also the only hole that Davis made a bogey on during his opening round.

I'm not sure what kind of specials they may be running, but I'm glad to hear the tee sheets are full.  That means at least our main design goal was accomplished.     

Thanks,  John

Bryan Izatt

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2009, 02:52:26 PM »
Jason,

Glad you enjoyed your rounds at River Hall.  I'd agree with all your points.  As it was suitable for your father, it was also suitable for my wife.  I'd agree that the driving is not that interesting with the corridors as wide as they are, and the lack of threatening hazards, but then that contributes to the playability. The fairway bunkers didn't seem that challenging to me, perhaps because I missed most of them, since they're not too intrusive on the lines.  The greenside ones are no more challenging than most.

Where did you find the challenge on the course, as a better player?  I've played it twice and scored considerably better than average both times leading me to believe that it played relatively easy.  I played from the second from the back tees.  Where did you play from?

The 17th seemed to me to be out of context with the rest of the course.  Narrow and hazardous.

Here are some pictures I took back in December.  I was focused on the faux ridges that were built in to provide some visual relief on the flat site.  I found them jarring.

John,

The tee sheet was full when I was there too.  Likely the result of the price, which is better than most in the area, and it's front cover placement on the local Golfer's Guide.

















Jason Topp

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2009, 03:49:48 PM »
Jason,

Where did you find the challenge on the course, as a better player?  I've played it twice and scored considerably better than average both times leading me to believe that it played relatively easy.  I played from the second from the back tees.  Where did you play from?

The 17th seemed to me to be out of context with the rest of the course.  Narrow and hazardous.


Thanks Bryan:

As to challenge - there was little evidence of me being a "better player" last weekend.  I did score better at River Hall than Fiddlesticks but found plenty to challenge me, particularly when we played it the 2nd time at 6700 (approximately).  I got away with a lot of missed shots from the shorter tees with my father.

I found many of the pins very interesting - often tucked into tight corners and presenting the potential for the ball running far away from the green if one got too aggressive.  We played it in about a 15 mph wind which made controlling the ball more difficult and the impact of a wayward shot multiplied by the firm ground conditions.  I also found the 2nd shots to par fives to be very interesting.  Often I was around 250 yards and could get there with the ample roll available.  I also found the short game shots to be a challenge with rock hard greens and the need to hit the ball solid and land it in the correct spots.

As to 17, I'm not a big fan of the "out of context" criticism.  If a hole is a fun change of pace, I am in favor of it.  I think it is rare to create even a short par four that forces me to make a decision as to line and club off the tee.  17 does that.

Roger Wolfe

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2009, 07:41:01 PM »
I am not sure if its still there... one of the 2004 hurricanes might have blown it away... but beyond Sanibel on Captiva is an amazing 9 hole track right on the ocean.  Its called Redfish Point and playing it at sunset is a religious experience.

Bryan Izatt

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Re: Fort Myers / Naples Golf Courses
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2009, 12:19:38 PM »
Jason,

Perhaps you still have some winter rust on the game.  You are a good golfer as I recall.  I was driving the ball well when I was there, so perhaps that made it play easier.  And the firm and fast conditions did make it play shorter than the listed distances.  And, I was just trying to hit greens, not attack pins, so didn't get rejected by too many of the greens.  When I did, I definitely suffered the consequences. 

Seventeen just didn't fit my eye.  I'm not a fan of target golf holes.  Four iron, sand wedge isn't my idea of interesting.  Perhaps with more play I could see some risk/reward options, but I really don't like the sure palmetto death holes of Florida.  For a better short par 4, I liked the third at Rustic Canyon (if you've been there) a lot better.  But, to each their own.