Two Ross Courses in Knoxville, TN

[JWinick]

This weekend, I played Cherokee Country Club and Holston Hills - two Donald Ross courses.   Both courses were fast and firm, but Cherokee might be too short of a course for it to play that way.  Cherokee is closing down its course for six months for a major renovation.

Holston Hills was spectactular.  I'm immediately putting it in my top-ten.   Great expansive vistas and dramatic holes.  I have not played a Ross course I enjoyed so much. 
 

[Brian Cenci]

I share your same feelings regarding Holston Hills.  It is an unbelievable Ross course.  It is my favorite Ross I've played, having played Oakland Hills, Inverness, Pinehurst No. 2, Pine Needles, Franklin Hills among many others.  Holston is vastly underated and I think over time it will creep up and gain it's due recognition.

-Brian

[jonathan_becker]

Bump.

I was just wondering if anyone had any details about the work performed at Cherokee CC? 

Thanks,

Jonathan

[Steve Kline]

I played Cherokee this week in the Southern Am qualifier. I played poorly, but I immediately wanted another chance at the course.


It is 6,300 yards from the tips. 6 par 3s and 4 par 5s. Lots of half par holes. One of the par 3s is 241 with OB hard on the right and a creek left. I should have laid up off the tee. Two of the par 5s are 496 and 487 (I think). The first of these I had 200 to the flag for my second (you couldn't really get any closer because a creek crossed the fairway). But the green had OB right and a creek left. I went for it, but again I should have laid up to 60 yards or so to guarantee I made no worse than 5. But two of the par 4s are 478 and 464.


Course was in tremendous shape. Pretty firm and fast. Greens were pure.


The green complexes were amazing. Some really good, well integrated run off areas. Internal movement was super cool with lots of little shelves and bowls. Threre were a few greens where I thought to myself I haven't seen anything like this. The greens are most definitely the defense of the course.


Super compact site, but never felt claustrophobic. Short green to tee walks.


This would be a great course to be a member at.

[Mike Hendren]

Cherokee CC by Mike Hendren, on Flickr

[Chad Anderson (Tennessee)]

I'm glad you liked Cherokee.  It seems most people love or hate it and it mostly comes down to the green complexes.  The Tennessee Golf Association is hosting the State Four-Ball there next week and it should be awesome for this event.  Looking at some of the teams we have in the event, it will take some great playing to win.


In the many events I have conducted at Cherokee, hole 4 will play the hardest as a sub-500 yard par 5.  There has been many times I have entered a double digit score in a junior event for kids who shoot in the 70s.  On hole 12, the 240 par 3, many players will hit it to the fairway and take their chances trying to get up and down for par.


I know this has nothing to do with golf, but they also have a bowling alley in the clubhouse.  Four lanes and three of those lanes still use humans to set the pins back up after you knock them down.  Very cool experience!


As far as Holston goes, it is one of the best in the Southeast.  They removed a ton of trees and put in native grass which gives it a great definition.  It doesn't get much better than that place!

I played Cherokee this week in the Southern Am qualifier. I played poorly, but I immediately wanted another chance at the course.


It is 6,300 yards from the tips. 6 par 3s and 4 par 5s. Lots of half par holes. One of the par 3s is 241 with OB hard on the right and a creek left. I should have laid up off the tee. Two of the par 5s are 496 and 487 (I think). The first of these I had 200 to the flag for my second (you couldn't really get any closer because a creek crossed the fairway). But the green had OB right and a creek left. I went for it, but again I should have laid up to 60 yards or so to guarantee I made no worse than 5. But two of the par 4s are 478 and 464.


Course was in tremendous shape. Pretty firm and fast. Greens were pure.


The green complexes were amazing. Some really good, well integrated run off areas. Internal movement was super cool with lots of little shelves and bowls. Threre were a few greens where I thought to myself I haven't seen anything like this. The greens are most definitely the defense of the course.


Super compact site, but never felt claustrophobic. Short green to tee walks.


This would be a great course to be a member at.

[Steve Kline]

I'm glad you liked Cherokee.  It seems most people love or hate it and it mostly comes down to the green complexes.  The Tennessee Golf Association is hosting the State Four-Ball there next week and it should be awesome for this event.  Looking at some of the teams we have in the event, it will take some great playing to win.


In the many events I have conducted at Cherokee, hole 4 will play the hardest as a sub-500 yard par 5.  There has been many times I have entered a double digit score in a junior event for kids who shoot in the 70s.  On hole 12, the 240 par 3, many players will hit it to the fairway and take their chances trying to get up and down for par.


I know this has nothing to do with golf, but they also have a bowling alley in the clubhouse.  Four lanes and three of those lanes still use humans to set the pins back up after you knock them down.  Very cool experience!


As far as Holston goes, it is one of the best in the Southeast.  They removed a ton of trees and put in native grass which gives it a great definition.  It doesn't get much better than that place!

I played Cherokee this week in the Southern Am qualifier. I played poorly, but I immediately wanted another chance at the course.


It is 6,300 yards from the tips. 6 par 3s and 4 par 5s. Lots of half par holes. One of the par 3s is 241 with OB hard on the right and a creek left. I should have laid up off the tee. Two of the par 5s are 496 and 487 (I think). The first of these I had 200 to the flag for my second (you couldn't really get any closer because a creek crossed the fairway). But the green had OB right and a creek left. I went for it, but again I should have laid up to 60 yards or so to guarantee I made no worse than 5. But two of the par 4s are 478 and 464.


Course was in tremendous shape. Pretty firm and fast. Greens were pure.


The green complexes were amazing. Some really good, well integrated run off areas. Internal movement was super cool with lots of little shelves and bowls. Threre were a few greens where I thought to myself I haven't seen anything like this. The greens are most definitely the defense of the course.


Super compact site, but never felt claustrophobic. Short green to tee walks.


This would be a great course to be a member at.

The Ross course I'm a member at in Cincinnati also has a bowling alley (8 lanes I think) that still requires a human pin setter.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Holston Hills is what a golf course should be. It is not built on remarkable land-forms but it is interestingly routed over some uneven terrain. The greens complexes are brilliant. When you finish playing you think, "I wonder why I didn't score better? It doesn't seem difficult." If there is a weakness it is in the par fives. They are not bad they just don't inspire. The par fours are wonderful and the par threes entice. It doesn't wow you but after you finish, you think, "I'd like to do it again."

[Mike Hendren]

This photograph of Cherokee CC is dated September 1920.  The 18th green is in the foreground and the 10th green to rear of the photograph (white flag against backdrop of tree) reflects dramatic mounding to the sides and rear. A bit surprising.  Perhaps Ross was channeling his inner Travis. The tee for the 10th is just outside the right edge of the photograph.  The 9th green is to the right.  The circles back left of the 18th green and short left of the 10th green are interesting. As this is taken in the fall is it possible the club is readying those areas as alternative winter greens?


Go Vols.

[Nigel Islam]

Holston Hills is what a golf course should be. It is not built on remarkable land-forms but it is interestingly routed over some uneven terrain. The greens complexes are brilliant. When you finish playing you think, "I wonder why I didn't score better? It doesn't seem difficult." If there is a weakness it is in the par fives. They are not bad they just don't inspire. The par fours are wonderful and the par threes entice. It doesn't wow you but after you finish, you think, "I'd like to do it again."

Sums it up perfectly. Terrific course. I like as you walk up to the clubhouse, the whole golf course unfurls before your line of sight.

[Sven Nilsen]

This photograph of Cherokee CC is dated September 1920.  The 18th green is in the foreground and the 10th green to rear of the photograph (white flag against backdrop of tree) reflects dramatic mounding to the sides and rear. A bit surprising.  Perhaps Ross was channeling his inner Travis. The tee for the 10th is just outside the right edge of the photograph.  The 9th green is to the right.  The circles back left of the 18th green and short left of the 10th green are interesting. As this is taken in the fall is it possible the club is readying those areas as alternative winter greens?


Go Vols.

Those mounds would be a lot more consistent with the work of Barker, who we know did a new course for Cherokee in 1915-16 prior to any involvement by Ross.


Sven

[Mike Hendren]

Good insight Sven. Barker is the forgotten man at Belle Meade CC in Nashville as well, not that his or Ross’ work have survived the Jones family in tact.

[Adam Clayman]

Both courses were fast and firm, but Cherokee might be too short of a course for it to play that way. 

This sentiment does not compute.


Elaborate, if you can?

[JWinick]

Adam,


I hadn't been on here in a while but happened to see someone bump the thread.   11 or so years ago, I probably thought of golf courses in terms of difficulty.   I recall Cherokee being a bit short and tight, which could mean taking driver out of some player's hands.    I now believe that fast and firm doesn't always mean easier.    But, sure if you want the course to play longer, fast and firm can make a golf course at 6300 feel like 5800.


Best,
Jon

[Matt MacIver]

From my one play at Holston: nice course. I think the best part about it is the doglegs; the greens were tilted but generally one-tiered and there was very little elevation change (average at best property).  Fun: sure.  Travel 200+ miles to play: no. Home course: absolutely.

[Steve Kline]

But, sure if you want the course to play longer, fast and firm can make a golf course at 6300 feel like 5800.


Best,
Jon

Cherokee was playing firm the day I played it and it definitely didn't feel like it played 5,800 yards. Forget par. There are around 5 holes that are between 460-500. There is one that is 240. That is six holes that are rather lengthy. A couple of those get REALLY tight around the green. There's another in the 520 range.


There's really one par 5 on the golf course (for pros there wouldn't be any). So, using the Fried Egg adjusted par, it's a par 69. And, a pretty tough one I think.

[Chad Anderson (Tennessee)]

The TGA just had the State Four-Ball there last week.  -9 under was the medalist (4 teams) in the 18 hole stroke play qualifying round. https://www.golfgenius.com/pages/1837092


Bryce Lewis had the low round with 63, includes 2 bogeys.  It was a great course for this event.