[JC Jones]

"The Walker Cup........Is a much higher achievement than even an NCAA Championship....."

Maybe in your opinion but not necessarily in mine.

John

JP.

The low man at the NCAA Tournament is one accomplished player but how many people can conjour up the name of an NCAA Champion compared to a member of a Walker Cup team? Not many I vouchsafe.

Bob

Maybe that's not important to John.  Regardless of how many people can conjour up the name of an NCAA champion or how many think the Walker cup is more important, John has every right to believe the NCAA's to be more important, because they would be more important to him. 

Not everyone plays the game to be in record books.

[Bob_Huntley]

Thank you all for your comments.

The young man took the path he did because he felt an obligation to his team mates, I cannot fault him.

Someone earlier said "What has happened to him since?

It was Bobby Clampett.


Bob

[AndrewB]

It was 1979 at Muirfield then.  If it was 1981 at Cypress Point near his home I wonder if his decision would have been different.

From The Walker Cup: Golf's Finest Contest, which is an excellent book:

General interest in the Walker Cup match in America had been at a low ebb for some time.  The most recent results in 1975 and 1977 had not helped the cause in credibility terms.  The composition of American teams had become predominantly college players using the Walker Cup match as an additional stepping stone to reach the attention of sponsors and tournament promoters before they turned professional.  Was it good for the integrity of the match?  Did it matter for those on the American side?

Against that backdrop, the authorities scheduled the 1979 Walker Cup match at the same time as the most important college tournament of the year, the NCAA.

Many of the potential Walker Cup squad were also on college scholarships, which meant having to choose between the two.  In circumstances where the golf scholarship "obliged" the player to participate in the NCAA there was really no choice, particularly since the benefits accruing from an appearance in the Walker Cup were probably now overshadowed by a successful showing in the NCAA, at least as far as potential sponsors and tournament promoters were concerned.

Thus, America lost the services of three of their leading amateur golfers, John Cook, Gary Hallberg, and the much heralded Bobby Clampett.  Cook was then the reigning US Amateur Champion.  Hallberg's decision, perhaps influenced in part by the fact that he already had a Walker Cup cap, was apparently vindicated when he won the NCAA Championship that year.

[George Pazin]

Sounds to me like he made an honorable selfless decision, one I don't think many would make.

[Dan Kelly]

It was 1979 at Muirfield then.  If it was 1981 at Cypress Point near his home I wonder if his decision would have been different.

From The Walker Cup: Golf's Finest Contest, which is an excellent book:

General interest in the Walker Cup match in America had been at a low ebb for some time.  The most recent results in 1975 and 1977 had not helped the cause in credibility terms.  The composition of American teams had become predominantly college players using the Walker Cup match as an additional stepping stone to reach the attention of sponsors and tournament promoters before they turned professional.  Was it good for the integrity of the match?  Did it matter for those on the American side?

Against that backdrop, the authorities scheduled the 1979 Walker Cup match at the same time as the most important college tournament of the year, the NCAA.

Many of the potential Walker Cup squad were also on college scholarships, which meant having to choose between the two.  In circumstances where the golf scholarship "obliged" the player to participate in the NCAA there was really no choice, particularly since the benefits accruing from an appearance in the Walker Cup were probably now overshadowed by a successful showing in the NCAA, at least as far as potential sponsors and tournament promoters were concerned.

Thus, America lost the services of three of their leading amateur golfers, John Cook, Gary Hallberg, and the much heralded Bobby Clampett.  Cook was then the reigning US Amateur Champion.  Hallberg's decision, perhaps influenced in part by the fact that he already had a Walker Cup cap, was apparently vindicated when he won the NCAA Championship that year.

Andrew --

Thanks so much for answering my question.

As usual, "the authorities" left much to be desired!

Dan

[George Pazin]

Here's another interesting note: I'm pretty sure at that time that all Walker Cup team members were invited to play in the Masters.

[Peter Wagner]

Don't ya mean God, Country and BYU?

I think Bobby made the correct choice back then.  When a student accepts a scholarship they enter into an agreement: I will play my hardest and you will give me free tuition.  Just because a better tourney comes around doesn't give the student golfer the right to bolt from this agreement.

The only way it would work would be for the student to work with the coaches and athletic department to determine what's best for both the school and the student athlete.

As an aside, Bobby has turned out to be one of the best TV announcers in golf.  As I noted in another post, I felt his one man coverage on Masters.org was exceptional.

- Peter

[Bob_Huntley]

Don't ya mean God, Country and BYU?

I think Bobby made the correct choice back then.  When a student accepts a scholarship they enter into an agreement: I will play my hardest and you will give me free tuition.  Just because a better tourney comes around doesn't give the student golfer the right to bolt from this agreement.

The only way it would work would be for the student to work with the coaches and athletic department to determine what's best for both the school and the student athlete.

As an aside, Bobby has turned out to be one of the best TV announcers in golf.  As I noted in another post, I felt his one man coverage on Masters.org was exceptional.

- Peter

Peter,

The 'God, Country and Yale' heading is that school's motto. I used the caption purely as an intro to the question at hand. Had I mentioned BYU the gig would have been up.

Bob

[George Pazin]

I think Bobby made the correct choice back then.  When a student accepts a scholarship they enter into an agreement: I will play my hardest and you will give me free tuition.  Just because a better tourney comes around doesn't give the student golfer the right to bolt from this agreement.

Interestingly, this situation has come up a couple times in the past year. Just this past week there was a blurb about a young guy, I think he was a Duke senior, who passed up the ACC tourney to play in the Wachovia. And last year, Colt Knost passed up playing in the Big 12 championships (I think) to play in the Byron Nelson. No mention in either case of the school expecting otherwise from the youngsters in question.

Btw, I thought the title of the thread was a play on Bill Buckley's book.

EDIT: Whoops, just saw Bob's post - maybe Buckley's book was a play on the school's motto, didn't know that!

No wonder they didn't let me in....

[Mike Sweeney]

Let's not kid ourselves, about loyalty in college athletics.

Doesn't the increasing trend toward not having loyalty to one's school have -- in part, at least  -- its roots in the growing trend of high schoolers not being loyal to their schools and communities?

I agree parents often play a disconcerting role in this.
[/quote]

Depends. My reference was more to the BC, LSU and even Patrick's Irishmen of the college world. Go find a kid who plays Division III football, swimming or track, it is probably a different story.

[Bill Shamleffer]

I think Bobby made the correct choice back then.  When a student accepts a scholarship they enter into an agreement: I will play my hardest and you will give me free tuition.  Just because a better tourney comes around doesn't give the student golfer the right to bolt from this agreement.

Interestingly, this situation has come up a couple times in the past year. Just this past week there was a blurb about a young guy, I think he was a Duke senior, who passed up the ACC tourney to play in the Wachovia. And last year, Colt Knost passed up playing in the Big 12 championships (I think) to play in the Byron Nelson. No mention in either case of the school expecting otherwise from the youngsters in question.

Btw, I thought the title of the thread was a play on Bill Buckley's book.

EDIT: Whoops, just saw Bob's post - maybe Buckley's book was a play on the school's motto, didn't know that!

No wonder they didn't let me in....

Just to clarify, Colt Knost played for SMU.  SMU is in Conference-USA.  Knost did miss the first round of the Conference-USA men's golf championship, but then played in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  Going from playing in the Byron Nelson to playing in the conference championship, he shot rounds of 71 & 74.

As a trivial side note:  If Knost 1st round score was 72, SMU would have moved from 4th to 3rd place in the final results.  If his 1st round score had been 69, SMU moves from 3rd to 2nd.  Of course this also leaves open that if he had been there for practice, and not worn out from playing in a PGA Tour event, would his 2nd and 3rd round scores have been better than 71 & 74.

As a final bit of meaningless trivia, Knost would have needed to shoot three 65s to get SMU tied for 1st place.  The medalist shot 212.

[Phil McDade]

Let's not kid ourselves, about loyalty in college athletics.

Doesn't the increasing trend toward not having loyalty to one's school have -- in part, at least  -- its roots in the growing trend of high schoolers not being loyal to their schools and communities?

I agree parents often play a disconcerting role in this.

Depends. My reference was more to the BC, LSU and even Patrick's Irishmen of the college world. Go find a kid who plays Division III football, swimming or track, it is probably a different story.
[/quote]

Mike:

I'm not sure, at least when it comes to big-time college basketball and even hockey, a sport I failed to mention in the first post. In high school hoops, at a certain level, it's pretty much conceded that a player's AAU team (or the equivalent) is their primary focus, and a way to get their name out among a broader range of Div. 1 coaches and play against hoopsters around the country at their skill level. The high school season is something of -- not quite an afterthought, but perhaps along the lines of a nuisance. I know of one local group of high school soccer players, who all played for the same high school team, who quit the team en masse in their junior year to go pursue some state or regional-level club.

Take a glance at the sheer number of early-entry college (even juco) players for the NBA draft this year. It's ridiculously long, and I count about three players I'd even consider 1st-round draft material with the prospects of long-term NBA success. I'm not sure it's disloyalty at the college level -- that's a pretty harsh word -- but the unwillingness of so many to do what is clearly in their best interest (stay in college, get a degree, learn to play basketball under good coaching) is the result, I'd argue, of trends we're seeing at the high school level.

Most Div. III athletes I know -- and I know quite a few -- compete mainly for their love of the sport. I'm sure they are loyal to the schools, as well, but they don't face the issue the way D1 athletes do, obviously.

[Dave_Miller]

A number of years ago I wrote to a young friend,  a crackerjack collegiate player, who had elected to forego a sure spot on the Walker Cup team to represent his university in the NCAA Championships. My point was that a place in golfing history was assured by playing in the former, I am not sure about the latter.

He pointed out that he owed it to his coach and Alma Mater.

What think you?

Bob

Bob:
Tough to argue against the decision your friend made.  Sometimes loyalty is its own reward.  If he was happy and secure in his decision then in the end that is probably all that matters,
Best
Dave

[J_ Crisham]

Bob,
     Just a quick Bobby Clampett story from my youth. In the 1981 Western Open at Butler National, the young woman with the first pick in the caddie lottery chose Bobby. This was prior to the days when tour players were allowed to bring in their regular loopers. Keep in mind this was at a point in time when Watson ruled the fairways and had a stellar record in this event. When asked by the media why she chose this up and coming young player from Carmel her response was that he was "dreamy". 

[Colin Sheehan]

I thought this would add to the discussion. In 2004, I interviewed John Cook about his amateur career. He won the 1978 US Am at Plainfield CC.

"The following spring (1979), I played in my very first Masters. I played my practice rounds with Ed Sneed, Tom Weiskopf and Ken Venturi. That was the year Ed played well and let the tournament slip from his grasp. Later that spring, the USGA was choosing its Walker Cup team for the matches in Scotland, at Muirfield. The scheduling of the event was immediately following the NCAA championship, played the week before the Walker Cup. The NCAA's were being played at Wake Forest. The USGA picked me for the Walker Cup, and I was notified that the team was leaving for Scotland on the Saturday before the matches. Immediately, I knew I would have a conflict. The NCAA's didn't finish until Saturday. I couldn't understand why the team was scheduling to leave on Saturday, the matches didn't officially begin until the following Friday. Bobby Clampett, Gary Hallberg and I had made arrangements to fly from North Carolina to New York to catch a flight one day later. It didn't satisfy the USGA. They insisted that we had to be available for the Saturday flight. We were forced to choose between the NCAAs or the Walker Cup, and we all chose not to skip out on our college golf obligations. The Walker Cup organizers were needlessly unaccommodating. I had my education invested at Ohio State—and I had teammates I couldn't let down. Bobby and Gary both felt the same way. It was a good decision. I played well and the team played well and we finished first as a team. Gary finished first as an individual and Bobby finished second. I finished about seventh or eighth."

[Bob_Huntley]

Colin,

Thank you for filling in the blanks. As usual, the USGA comes across as the arrogant elitist outfit it has been portrayed for many a year. The young men made their choice and none seem to have suffered from it.

Bob

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