[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

There is a wonderful book on the club by a GCA active member.  For those who have not collected a copy, it would make a valuable addition to your collection.  The pictures do not do justice to the wonderful ground movement.  A couple of holes look similar in the pictures, but the ground movement makes them play very different.  No hole plays alike.  This is a course that really grows on you and that you enjoy playing over and over again--every round a new adventure.  For those faint at heart, it is an extremely hard course, but does yield good rounds and the desert allows both disasters and great recoveries.  At this time of year, enter the desert with caution.

This snake is actually a pretty big bull snake


This is the opening hole--my friend Todd gives some perspective on the elevation of the green complex





The previous 3 pictures are of the 4th hole





A view of the great par5 7th from the tee

Looking back at the tee with a view of the safe fairway on right, but golfer's left from the tee

The little tree on the right is highly strategic on choosing an aggressive live off the tee--failure to hit past 300 yards will result in having to shape the second shot which is a long approach to a Shinnecock Hills 5th type green








This is the par 5 11th another great hole.  Hopefully this shows the how the gound movement affects the strategy of the hole.  A very aggressive drive down the left makes this 590 hole reachable if you avoid the desert on both shots



The 11th green complex






Two looks of the par 4 15th from the 420 tee and the 370 tee


Risk/ Reward tee shot on the par 5 16th

This tree poses problems for the super long players and average length players--the tee shot is always hit with this tree in mind.  A sloppy drive by te average player forces a shaped shot, rather than simply hiting a hot running shot by the tree.

[BVince]

Thanks for the pictures and for scaling down the pic size.

[Ryan Farrow]

Nice to finally put a face to the name, thanks for posting the pictures. Although I must say those bunkers stick out like a sore thumb, they just look like black holes that are trying to suck up everything around it.

[Matt_Cohn]

I know it's a great course but it looks pretty underwhelming. These are the first pictures I've seen. Somehow I expected more. I'd never judge just from the pictures, though...

[cary lichtenstein]

I know it's a great course but it looks pretty underwhelming. These are the first pictures I've seen. Somehow I expected more. I'd never judge just from the pictures, though...

My wife and I played this course about 5 years ago and underwhelming was the word we used to describe it.

[Rich Goodale]

I've never been there, but I am very underwhelmed, too.  What makes this place so special, Robert?

Rich

[Brad Klein]

The problem here isn't the golf course, it's the photography that's been posted. There isn't a golf course in the world that looks good when photographed at mid-day sun, with frontal images of every green from straight out in the middle of the fairway.

What's missing here from Desert Forest are the subtle fairway contours- - that you have to read from the tee; the terror of playing drives despite the absence of a any fairway bunkers at all; the slope of the greens and the importance of being in the right spot; the simplicity of the clubhouse against the contrast of all those other gaudy desert facilities; and the beauty of a course without on-site housing, where the desert floor and native washes are the basic hazards you face. That's what explains RMD's welcome enthusiasm about the course.

On first impression a lot of the greens/shots into the greens look similar. Which is why in the club history book we photographed everything from different angles, from partial or fuller elevation, and in shaded or offset light.

[Mark_Fine]

I agree with Brad, the pictures do not show the course well.  Good example of needing to play/walk the course to judge it properly.  It has always been one of my favorites in the desert.

[Rich Goodale]

Brad

You seem to be implying that every golf course could look sexy if properly air-brushed, photo-shopped, tarted up, etc. If this is the case, I personally agree with you.  However, IMO it is the really great courses which can inspire you, regardless of the photogapher, the lighting, the phases of the moon, or whatever.  A great photographer can make any average course look tempting (and we've seen numerous exmples on this website), but when you play the place what goes through your mind is not something form "The Spirit of St. Andrews" but Peggy Lee's "And That's All There Is"(?).

Not sure, of course how Desert Forest fits on this scale.

Rich

[Brad Klein]

That's not what I'm implying at all. I'm simply saying that to capture the features of a golf course you need  to avoid full light and to view it, instead, from different angles. I didn't say a thing about tarting the place up.

[Rich Goodale]

Brad

Of course, you did not say a thing about "tarting up" and apologies, but to me, "to capture the features of a golf course you need  to avoid full light and to view it, instead, from different angles," means exactly the same thing to me as "tarting up", whether you are photgraphing or writing about a course.

Slainte

Rich

[Brad Klein]

RFG, you're trying to drag me into your corner and claim we live on the same street. Ridiculous. You're writing about air brushing, photo-shopping, tarting up -- I never said anything like that, and in the book we did we never reverted to any tinkering or falsifying like that, whether in the writing or in the imagery.

[Andy Troeger]

I've posted this all before and probably don't need to rehash it but here goes anyway...

One thing I noticed from the photos is that you cannot tell how narrow the fairways are and how in many cases the contours push the ball into the desert. Maybe I was unlucky but I would never use the word "recover" and Desert Forest together either. I thought it was penal and intimidating. Of the 4-5 times I recall hitting into the desert I think I found the ball twice and could chop it out once. Advancing the ball was never an option.

All that said I only spent one day there and am not the most accurate of drivers of the ball; one of the fellows I played with shot 73 and thought more highly of it than I did (although not as high as the GolfWeek ranking). The green complexes are easily the best part of the golf course, but if I was going to play DF again I'd be very tempted to take everything over a 3-iron out of the bag and play it from 6000 yards.

I'd really be surprised if this course could be built today and have people think as highly of it as they do DF. To me it benefits signficantly from being the "original" desert course. Just too narrow considering the lack of recovery options.

[Rich Goodale]

Brad

I didn't intend to drag you anywhere, particularly my "corner," whatever or wherever that is, and as we both know, I'm from a wholly different part of The Great State of Connecticut (getting ready for the Conventions....), not the same street.  I did intend to make the point that carefully choosing pictures, just as carefully choosing words, is the expression of an opinion rather than the stating of a fact.  You chose certain compositions, lightings, angles, times of days, etc. to express what Desert Forest meant to you and others, just as Madonna chooses a photographer and photo editor to express what she means to herself and her fans, on any given day.

A picture IS worth a thousand words, but, Damn, you can do a lot of "photo-shopping" with 1000 "words" if you are passionate and clever........

Rich

[Adam Clayman]

If someone would post the aerial, everyone would be fooled on just how intelligently designed this course is.
 The greens are as good as any top whatevers. The uniform bunker edges caught my eye as something that coul've been altered, by then I realized their juxtaposition to the natural scape made them work as an art form. Certainly they get your attention.

As has been said, the movement is fantastic.

When Lefty wants to work n his driving accuracy, he goes to DF. When inter-club opponents come to play at DF they get whipped.

Df has that charm that is elusive at approx. 16,935  other courses nationwide.

[Brad Klein]

Adam, I just sent you the aerial drawing that Forrest Richardson did for our DFGC book and maybe you (or someone) can post it.

B

[Steve_ Shaffer]

A better picture:



The routing:

[John Foley]

When Lefty wants to work n his driving accuracy, he goes to DF. When inter-club opponents come to play at DF they get whipped.

This is the part I don't get about so called great architecture. If I am an accurate driver of the golf ball I will be rewarded, but if I am not then I got whipped.

How is that great architecture? It may be to the scratch range golfer, but the 10-20 HDCP golfer who would be playing amongst the Saguaro's all day - how enjoyable is this?

[Adam_Messix]

It's not hard for me to see why people would be underwhelmed by Desert Forest, particularly if they've only played it once.  My advice would be to go back and see it again because DF is very different from the typical desert course of today.  I was going through photos of DF yesterday and was comparing them to Estancia and Whisper Rock and must admit that from the pictures Desert Forest looks very vanilla in comparision.  However, there's a lot more than meets the eye.  Lawrence made very good use of what topographical movement the property had.  The greens have a lot of back to front slope and tend to present themselves in dare I say a very Flynn look.  The alternate route 7th hole is the best hole on the course.  The difficulty though is the precise driving required, there are a number of driving holes where missing the fairway is penal.   The only real weakness are the back to back mid range straight away par fours on the back nine, I think it's 14 and 15.  

There's much to like about the Desert Forest Club, very low key and simple.  The club fits the nature of the course very well.  

[Jim Sweeney]

Andy T:

I don't know when you played the course, but I understand that in the past few years Superintendent Karl Olsen has reclaimed much of the desert areas ajoining fairways, making recovery more possible. Not that one couldn't get behind the odd cactus or mequite, but the thick grass and non-native underbrush is largely gone, and the pictures in this thread seem to back that up.

I have played many courses in the valley, including the newest, most acclaimed courses, and I still think DF is the best. Certainly it is the prototype and patriarch of valley golf.

[Tom Yost]

I've never played Desert Forest, but I thought we were all in agreement that a course needed to be walked and played to be judged?  (i.e. who would be motivated to play The Old Course just by looking at pictures of that cow pasture?)

[Adam Clayman]

Thanx for the images. The aerial I remember from the old AOTD threads illustrated better just how str8 the corridors look from above. What was amazing is how differently they played on the ground. Zero feeling of str8.

John Foley,  One reason it's great is because hitting the big drive is not the only option or the only reason the local competition gets waxed.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The picture that I posted above is of the 7th hole. As mentioned above, it is also my favorite hole on the course.

"Hole 7
This par-5, 534 yards from the back, is without question the most strategically complex hole on the course and one of the best such holes in the country. True alternative paths are hard to set up properly, but here the options are evident on both the first and second shots, particularly after tree clearing opened up views of the routes for all classes of players. The key elements here are a waste-like scrub area dividing the tee shot on a diagonal axis and a second, more dramatic twenty-yard wide dry wash crossing the path of the second shot. The left path off the tee is easier and safer, leaving more than 150 yards to the end of the fairway and a third shot of 145 yards in. The bolder path is down the right side, with a tee shot to an approach area 225-250 yards from the green. This line is easier than it might seem owing to the straighter, shorter angle and leaves a long but open right to left second shot in."

Here's a picture of another of my favorites at DFGC:



Hole 15
Fairly generous landing area on this 410-yard downhill hole, but the putting surface is very deceptive thanks to a back-to-front sloping green that falls far more than appears to be the case.

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

Not to downplay Desert Forest but there's a number of solid other desert courses worthy of one's time and attention and at the "gold standard" level that Robert Mercer Deruntz suggests.

The idea that somehow all that have followed Desert Forest are really out of their league or something far less is a bit of stretch.

One should visit the original 18 at Whisper Rock as one example -- well done by Gary Stephenson and Phil Mickelson. Ditto the work, to a slightly lesser degree, that Nicklaus did at Outlaw as part of the Desert Mountain complex of courses.

Verrado by Tom Lehman and John Fought is also quite entertaining and fun without the extremes often associated with desert golf. I've also mentioned Vista Verde by Ken Kavanaugh as another layout that provides a compelling connection to the desert environment without being too harsh.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

It's not hard for me to see why people would be underwhelmed by Desert Forest, particularly if they've only played it once.  My advice would be to go back and see it again because DF is very different from the typical desert course of today.  I was going through photos of DF yesterday and was comparing them to Estancia and Whisper Rock and must admit that from the pictures Desert Forest looks very vanilla in comparision.  However, there's a lot more than meets the eye.  Lawrence made very good use of what topographical movement the property had.  The greens have a lot of back to front slope and tend to present themselves in dare I say a very Flynn look.  The alternate route 7th hole is the best hole on the course.  The difficulty though is the precise driving required, there are a number of driving holes where missing the fairway is penal.   The only real weakness are the back to back mid range straight away par fours on the back nine, I think it's 14 and 15.  

There's much to like about the Desert Forest Club, very low key and simple.  The club fits the nature of the course very well.  

I completely agree with this post.  After playing Troon North, Grayhawk, TPC, et al, Desert Forest (as well as others like Talking Stick - North & South) offer a different perspective on "desert" golf.  Much more flow to property than courses nearby.  In fact, the last time I played DFGC, I tried to picture the holes if they were laid out on property back in the Philadelphia area, and it wasn't a stretch to do so.

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