Have You Ever Driven A Par 4?

[John Kirk]

Let's take an informal survey here.  Please answer the following questions:

1.  Have you ever driven a par 4 hole?  If so, provide one or two memorable instances, as these are memorable experiences.

2.  What is your current handicap (to assess your general ability)?

3.  What is your success rate when truly attempting to drive the green on a par 4?

4.  To the best of your recollection, is your average score better when you lay up?

My answers are as follows:

1.  I've driven one or two par fours in my life.  Last year, I drove the Narrows hole, #12 at Chambers Bay, from the second set of tees, about 265 yards uphill.  I two putted from about 15 feet for birdie.

Edit:  I also drove #7 at Sand Hills the only time I tried to drive it.  Two putted from 20 feet.

I once drove it to the fringe on #6 at Pacific Dunes and made birdie.  Once I hit the top of the greenside bunker on #10 at Riviera, and needed to make an eight foot putt for par.

2.  My handicap is 2.3 today.

3.  I'd have to say I've legitimately tried to drive a par four about 100 times.  Maybe half of those times I had zero chance to reach.  I can only remember being successful twice.

4.  Yes, perhaps 0.75 - 1.00 strokes better.

[Mike Benham]

#4 at Pacific Grove
#7 at Olympic Lake
#16 at Southern Pines

No eagles, 2 birdies ...

I have probably attempted less then 100 realistic shots at driving a par 4 ...

[BVince]

1.  Yes, at least twice.  #1 at weeks golf course & #12 at chambers bay
2.  Handicap - 2.4
3.  Less than 10%
4.  When I layup I normally make par or better.  When I go for the green, I normally make par or better but it can bring higher number into play.

[Andrew Summerell]

I have a few times, especially 20 years ago when I was playing off 5. These days I’m off 12 & I seem to drive the ball shorter. None of the holes were particularly great.

The last par 4 I drove was the old 10th at The Coast Golf Club in Sydney. I did it 3 times in a row over a period of a couple of months. It was 255 yards to a green elevated about 20 foot above the fairway with a creek at the foot of the hill. A lay up would generally be with 7 or 6 iron, but the hole was right at my driving length, often help by a slight breeze coming in off the ocean. All 3 times I had a realistic eagle chance, but each time 2 putted for birdie.

I have also hit the new 10th at The Coast, which is about the same length, but one of the worst holes you could ever see.

Most of the time I lay up on short 2 shot hole, mostly because I realize I am just not that good.

[Mike Sweeney]

1. Today at Hidden Creek #8, and I did make birdie.   First time out of 25+ tries.

2. 16 at Cherry Creek on Long Island down wind 330 yards, actually went over into the fringe but got down in two.

3. Maybe 1 or two times besides the above.

Never at Sand Hills and I have tried and had the right conditions.

PS> Very very close at NGLA #2, but did not putt it.

[Paul Stephenson]

1. Yes.  Only once.  #3 at Midland G&CC

2. Handicap 2.3 (was lower when I did it)

3. Other than that one time 0%, although I would put my attempts at less than 75.

4. About the same.  I'm very conservative when it comes to trying to drive a green so I won't attempt going for it if a big number is in play.  

I must admit that almost all of my attempts nowadays are in scrambles or four balls when there is already a ball in play.  Ah to be young and reckless again...

[Martin Del Vecchio]

1) The first time I ever drove a par 4, it was in a junior golf tournament at the old Washingtonian CC in Maryland.  There was a pretty big crowd at the first tee, and I wailed my drive as hard as I could.  Into some bushes.  I was sure I could find it, and I was generally clueless at that age, so I just set off to look for it.

I never found it, so I had to trudge all the way back to the tee in shame, tee another ball up, and wail on it.  This one was right down the middle, so I picked up the tee and started jogging after it.  I watched as it bounced and rolled, rolled, rolled, all the way onto the green (340 yards away, but dry), ending up 5 feet from the pin.  I got the first round of applause in my life.

And anybody who knows me knows that I missed the putt for par.

2) 3.3, but I haven't posted a round in 3 years.

3) I can only hit it 250 or 260 these days, so I rarely find a chance to do it.  But a few years ago when I was playing a lot of competitive golf, I did drive a couple of par-4s, and three-putted them both.

4) I am of the opinion that the closer I can get to the green, the better.  Unless the green is guarded by steep bunkers, I'll hit it as close as I can.  I figure that I'm going to get it closer from the rough just short of the green than I am from 90 yards back.  I have no stats to back this up.

[Brian_Sleeman]

1.  Have you ever driven a par 4 hole?  If so, provide one or two memorable instances, as these are memorable experiences.

The sixth at the Marquette Golf Club Heritage Course is about 280 from the blue tees - I've driven that one several times, and almost always go for it because the wedge shot from a layup position is not much easier than any of the short game shots I'll have from anywhere short or left of the green.  It's also exciting and fun to attempt.  I've lipped out an ace there and left it on the back edge of the cup - that's my fondest memory of that.  With that hole I'm usually pretty successful because I know where to miss.

On other holes, not so much: the one time I played the 9th at CPC I gave it a rip, ended up way left and made 5 (and a good 5).  At Crystal Downs I've given the 7th a go a couple of times for fun (in a rare north wind) and done fine, but I've done better laying up.  On the 13th at the Kingsley Club, I've hit driver nearly every time, but usually aim left of the green to leave a decent pitch depending on the hole location.  I've only actually hit the putting surface once and attempted it maybe three or four times.

2.  What is your current handicap (to assess your general ability)?

Scratch, haven't had a handicap in awhile.

3.  What is your success rate when truly attempting to drive the green on a par 4?

In general, if the success rate is measured only by greens hit, it's fairly low.  However, when I make the decision to go for one, it's usually only made when I've got my recovery in mind and try to miss on a particular side.  I've only taken a few rips at holes where I have known that missing the green would leave a difficult shot.

If the success rate is in birdies or less, I've probably been successful somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% of the time.

4.  To the best of your recollection, is your average score better when you lay up?

I typically lay up anyway, but if I'm in reach and there's a decent area to one side or other of the green, I'll give it a go as I have a decent short game to fall back on.  When the possibility has been there to go for it, I've probably scored a little better when I've tried it.

[paul cowley]

Hell....every time I tee it up on a par four I try to drive it ....high expectations I guess!

I've had my share of eagles... but probably less than 10.

Just being there is almost enough, and I'm happy with the 2 putt birdie.

Three puts takes away the happyness of making par.

[Brock Peyer]

First, let me say that I LOVE driveable par fours (and reachable par fives) so I don't know how many I have driven but I used to be a decent driver, so I have tried a good bit.

 My favorites are:  I once drove the 17th green (with a Persimmon Driver) on the Landfall Nicklaus course in Wilmington NC, it's about a 280 yd carry to an island green in the middle of a large lake, it plays 340 or so by the card and via the lay up route.   Also, I have driven the front fringe twice of the the 16th or 17th hole at the Carolina Club near the Outerbanks.    I still can't figure out how I did it in two different rounds other than I had a strong tail wind and firm conditions,...the hole is 420 or so, couldn't believe it the first or second time, but had two easy birds.

My handicap is now 7, used to be scratch, used to be long and straight, now I am neither.

I am older, wiser, shorter and decent with a wedge, so I lay up quite a bit but I will try it in a heart beat if it makes sense or if I am brain dead at the time.

I don't know my stats but figure that I will make a better score on average laying up.

[Andy Troeger]

1. I've driven a par four maybe 10 times, about half coming on the same hole (#2 at Blackthorn--South Bend, IN). I've also driven the 10th hole there once. I drove #16 at Canyata and almost aced it the only round I played there, it rolled directly past the hole 10 feet and I made the eagle.

2. Current handicap: 7

3. Success rate on the hole at Blackthorn--10%. Everywhere else--about 2-3% maybe.

4. While the variety of scores I make is higher when I go for the green, I would without a doubt say my overall score is lower when I try. More focused  I think...

[Bill Satterfield]

1.  Have you ever driven a par 4?:  Yes, I've probably driven ten par 4s or so.  I have a 300 yard uphill par 4 at my home course I've driven a half dozen times, but have never dropped the eagle putt.  My most memorable Par 4 drive was at Logan River in Utah on the 315 yard 15th.  It is a dogleg left where the green is blind from the tee.  I put it on and dropped the 25 foot putt for eagle.  Another par 4 I drove was the 444 yard 4th at Rochelle Ranch.  It is a cape shaped hole where you can cut straight over the lake and if you carry it 257 yards it will find grass and probably roll onto the green.  Two other enjoyable par 4s I've driven are the 336 yard 10th at Circling Raven and the 313 yard 13th at Coeur d'Alene Resort.  The 13th at CDA Resort is a great hole that features Lake Coeur d'Alene the entire left side of the hole, o.b. right of the hole, and the lake jets into the fairway near the landing zone.  I've tried it four times and only made it once, and managed to three putt!

2.  My handicap is about a 5.

3.  My success rate on driving par 4s is less than 10%, but I'm not always driving it expecting to have a chance of reaching it.  For example, without a tail wind I usually end up 10 - 30 yards short on the 300 yard uphill par four 3rd at my home course.  The wind generally isn't a helper wind there so I don't hit my driver thinking I'm going to reach the green.  Since there isn't a hazard on the hole I always hit my driver since little penalty exists no matter what club I hit off the tee.

4.  Overall I would say the holes I've tried to drive have scored better than laying up.  My driver is probably my straightest club and if I don't reach the green I'm generally left with a relatively simple up and down attempt.  One thing I've found at many driveable par 4s though is that the greens are more undulated.  Anyone who has played the 2nd hole at Snake River Sporting Club in Jackson, WY can relate to that.  While birdies are certainly more plentiful when I try to drive a par 4 I also manage to overswing and create trouble once in a while.  In contrast, it is very rare for me to take worse than a par when I layup, but I probably don't birdie much more often than bogey in that scenario.

[Wayne_Freedman]

Many times on many courses.

There is no hole in golf that is more exciting or memorable than a risky, reachable par-4.

A couple of the more memorable recent ones are at TPC Scottsdale, and also the 16th at  Troon Monument. Have forgotten the TPC number, but it was a dogleg left, and not nearly as impressive as it sounds. A 250 carry, downwind.

Generally, if a par-4 is 270>310, I'm going for it if the risk does not outweigh the reward. Often, they put the danger in front, not back. If, in normal air, the ball requires a carry of 240 or less, that makes the decision easier. Just put a good swing on it and trust, trust, trust.  The ability to play such holes in this way is a gift, especially at my age. Ego has nothing to do with it. Opportunity is everything.

Period.

Birdie rate on such holes is probably 75 percent. Then again, one cannot swing foolishly. More often than not, I lay up.  Two weeks ago, I passed on one at 265 due to water on the left. Had never played the  hole before.

My index ranges from 4 to 6, depending on the whims of the Golf Gods.

If you really want to be impressed, get a guy like long drive champ Brian Pavlet as your partner in a shamble.
You'll be hitting 9 irons into par-5's for your seconds.
That was humbling.



 

[Bob_Huntley]

No.

Nowhere near.

Bob

[Wayne_Freedman]

And, an argument for shorter courses.

[John Moore II]

Let's take an informal survey here.  Please answer the following questions:

1.  Have you ever driven a par 4 hole?  If so, provide one or two memorable instances, as these are memorable experiences.
---Yes, I have driven a par 4. Most recently at Park Ridge in Lake Worth FL, playing with Jeff Grossman from this site.  Of course I 3 putted. The first time I can recall driving a par 4 was when I was in high school just playing in the afternoon. I won't tell the whole story, but I hit the shot to 3 feet and made the putt.

2.  What is your current handicap (to assess your general ability)?
---Current handicap-none, Pro.

3.  What is your success rate when truly attempting to drive the green on a par 4?
---Somewhat rare, as most are just on my range of getting there. The two holes above, should I play them again, I would say I can reach the putting surface at least 50% of the time, and be green high 100%.

4.  To the best of your recollection, is your average score better when you lay up?
---Again, depends on the hole. Most of the time though, it would be lower. A chip or bunker shot is usually easier than a 75-125 yarder from the fairway.

[Wayne_Freedman]

Would rather have a hole-in-one.

[Kyle Henderson]

#'s 1, 7, 9, 17 @ Mountain House; #16 @ Lake Chabot; #'s 2, 10 @ Wente; # 15 @Wild Horse (Davis, CA); #6 @Summitpointe; #4 @Pacific Grove; # 9 @ Old River; # 10 @ Apple Mountain, #8 @ Callippe Preserve... off the top of my head.

Some days I play like a 5 handicap, others like a 25...

Results vary. On some holes I'm definitely better off laying up, percentage-wise.

[Chris Kane]

1. Yes, probably a dozen times.  Most of them seem to be on the Old Course: 9, 10, 12, 18.
2. 12
3. Less than 5%
4. Depends on the course

[Jon Spaulding]

Too bad "almost" doesn't count.... a few interesting stories to tell, especially in foul conditions where one has the chance to do something he has never done and may never do again (another thread perhaps)....

1) getting down to the two premier events is tough. put it on #1 at San Jose CC a long time ago; considering that green, with the tee basically inside the pro shop....tough to forget that one. need to sleep on the other one.

2) currently +0.8 and headed north on the fast train

3) 5% on the surface; "around" the green 30% plus/minus.

4) Totally depends on which hole we're talking about. I did conduct an informal study on a driveable 4 at my old club, which had a) junk on the left, b) a boundary on the right, and c) a barranca to carry off the tee which was about 210. So even the layup had some form of stress. Over 2 years I was satisfied that the rare 2 and frequent 3's I made after driving the green (or adjacent to it) were not enough to offset the 6's from a poor drive. Scoring average on the layup was under 4 which I was pleased with in the following years.

[Tom_Doak]

1.  I have driven par-4 holes maybe ten times.  Memorable ones:  I remember driving the green on the old 18th on the Eden Course at St. Andrews ... probably why they decided to destroy it.  I drove the ninth green at The Old Course in the Dunhill event and two-putted for a net two.  Drove the fourth green at St. Enodoc and almost made a two there, which got me going on one of my best rounds ever.  And I drove the fourth at Barnbougle the last time I played there, walking with my wife.  I almost drove the fifteenth green at Crystal Downs today, completely by accident ... I've never been within 60 yards of it before, but it was downwind, and I was playing with a half set so I just hit driver.

2.  My handicap's about 10 now.  It was lower back in the 80's when I had more success at this subject.

3.  I don't try it that often, but my success rate can't be more than 10%.

4.  Depends on the hole.  I'll usually lay up if it's a gamble with lots of penalty possible, but one stupid gamble will throw off the success rate considerably.  I doubt my scoring average is much different either way, but I'm probably better off now if I can get the ball around the green then laying back for a 50-yard pitch which is voodoo distance for me right now.

[Jason Topp]

Yes. Probably on the green once out of 20 times.  6 handicap.

This was the most memorable:



I think I score better going for it unless there is a penalty stroke at risk.

[Gary Gruber]

17th at R.D.G.C. and holed the putt for 2, 16th at R.D.G.C. with my provisional ball, holed for 4 and won the hole in a fourball better ball match

Playing to a 4.

Probably no better than 10 pc but must of tried a couple hundred times

Definately better with a lay up no question

[RJ_Daley]

1.  Have you ever driven a par 4 hole?  If so, provide one or two memorable instances, as these are memorable experiences.

         Never legitimately on the green.  But, I've hit a number of fringes or within 10 yards of the green... Two holes that I've tried often and 'almost' successfully are Wild Horse #15 and Bayside #7 (both Bunkerhill, Axeland and Proctor courses)  A few others as well.  Also one of the more fun 'almosts' was Wild Horse #7 playing at ~340ish yards, downwind in about 40mph I got in the greenside bunker, with the course super sitting in his cart watching me.  I totally blew the bunker shot, ended up making bogie... 

2.  What is your current handicap (to assess your general ability)?

         ~11.5

3.  What is your success rate when truly attempting to drive the green on a par 4?

        as above, sofar 0 success for eagle... maybe 1 in 5 birdie, if I get within a few yards of green.  But, if I overswing (which is very likely, maybe 1 in 5 for par after I get near the green on second from whatever rough or hazards that are ussually near about a drivable par 4)

4.  To the best of your recollection, is your average score better when you lay up?

        probably, but can't say for sure.

[Sean_A]

I have driven lots of par 4s, but then I think there are more opportunities to do so when living in England. 

#9 TOC
#4 St Enodoc
#7 Pennard
#14 Brora (a very under-rated hole and a load of fun to have a go at)
#14 The Island
#3 Conwy (another very under-rated hole and extremely difficult to get up to the green)
#6 Deal
#18 North Berwick
#18 Kington
A few others on very short course like Musselburgh Old and Gullanes 2 & 3. 
A few at my old club, Droitwich.

None of these require great length and all except, oddly, TOC's 9th require a bit of luck.

The most satisfying one was driving the blind 16th at Droitwich.  They had just slapped in a new centreline bunker just short of the green to stop people driving the green.  I of course, was against the move and said it won't stop people and it takes away one of the coolest bump and run shots on the course.  I argued that the bunker should be placed back in the landing zone for the drive some 30-40 yards short of the green and was promptly shouted down.  I had never driven the hole before and promptly drove hole within my first 10 attempts and have done so since several times.  The bunker (albeit with some luck) actually acts as a mechanism to slow the ball down to stop from going long which I had done before it was in place.  By the by, it was several little changes like this which eventually brought me to the decision to leave the club. 

I always enjoy having a go at Kington's 18th - the greatest finishing hole in golf!

9 handicap who will have a go at most any short par 4 unless something relatively important is riding on not taking more than a bogey.

Ciao