Tobacco Road v. Tot Hill Farm - Yardage Books

[Mark Manuel]

Just back from a Pinehurst Trip.  Same group played Tobacco Road last year and Tot Hill Farm this year.  Enjoyed both golf courses, but the drive home provided some interesting discussion related to the two.  One of the observations was that we played Tot Hill without a yardage book.  For the most part is was right there in front of you.  Last year we needed the yardage book on Tobacco Road and couldn't imagine playing that golf course without one.  It felt like there were too many shots that you needed the book to say "hit it 240 over the corner of that waste area" for our liking.  Played both courses from the tips and it always fun to see the starter come racing back with a series of questions related to playing ability.

Makes me wonder, should a great golf hole be right there for you to see?  No question about what to hit and where to hit it?  As much I as I enjoyed Tobacco Road it makes me wonder about that course using this criteria.

Pine Needles was pretty close to the same way, no yardage book necessary.  Hit it and go.

[rjsimper]

I assume caddy could be substituted for yardage book, and by that metric I think that countless holes in Scotland/Ireland could disprove the theory that a good design must, as Tiger Woods says, "be right there in front of you"

[CJ Carder]

I assume caddy could be substituted for yardage book, and by that metric I think that countless holes in Scotland/Ireland could disprove the theory that a good design must, as Tiger Woods says, "be right there in front of you"

What's a caddy worth at TOC - 7-8 shots a round?  If you use the criteria that blind shots / misdirectioned tee markers, etc create a bad hole and therefore course, I think TOC would be ranked near the bottom.

If anything, I think it takes a real special course to have everything be "right there in front of you" and still remain a very stern and challenging test.  Even most "classic" courses have some amount of mystique somewhere on the course that makes a yardage book / caddy / prior experience at least somewhat useful.

[Jason Topp]

Makes me wonder, should a great golf hole be right there for you to see?  No question about what to hit and where to hit it?  As much I as I enjoyed Tobacco Road it makes me wonder about that course using this criteria.

On our trip we played these 2 courses followed up by 2 Donald Ross courses (Southern Pines and Charlotte Country Club).   Those courses more starkly define the differences I think you are asking about. 

On the Strantz courses, the shots were often blind and intimidating but the target area was bowl like - a halfway decent shot usually wound up in a decent spot.  They were soft so they were probably more forgiving than usual.

On the Ross courses everything was visible, the fairways were wide and the view much less intimidating but the targets were more of an upside down bowl - mediocre shots bounced away from the target. 

Overall - I preferred the Ross courses but am glad both exist.

Interestingly, scores were higher on the Ross courses even though the slope ratings were much lower and one member of our group was a 24 handicap.

[David Kelly]

Makes me wonder, should a great golf hole be right there for you to see?  No question about what to hit and where to hit it? 

I think that would be the death of golf course architecture.

[Rick_Noyes]

Maybe not necessarily "right there in front of you" but at least your options.  I wouldn't want to stand on a tee and wonder not which is the best place to hit it, but where am I supposed to hit at all?  I want some indication where the hole goes, at least a general direction.

[Garland Bayley]

On the courses that diminish in your opinion over time, Tom D mentions there are many courses that charge enough that you figure once is enough and don't intend to come back for more, these would be the ones that diminish over time. IMO that often would be a course that is all right there  in front of you. It is perhaps a good model for the resort course that you will visit once, but not a good model for courses that you want to do return play at.

Would Bandon be what it is if it were a collection of TF, RJ, etc. courses where everything is right there in front of you? Would people be going back over and over again?

[Jay Flemma]

Well, you've all heard the Tobacco Road Haiku, have you not?  I don;t remember who wrote it, but it's funny:

Where's the freakin green?!
Dude, I have no idea!
Check the yardage book...