Torrey Pines - how much is the original architect and how much is Rees?

[Jay Flemma]

I had the pleasure of having dinner with all the golf writers in Augusta and had a chat with Rees for a few minutes.  When I asked him what his latest masterpiece was he said, "Torrey Pines."

That begs the question:  I know Shack once asked, "Dude, where's my Torrey?"

So how much is oroginal and how much is Rees?  Specific e.g.s?

[David Stamm]

Some of the changes:

*Shifted the 3rd green closer to the canyon.

*Shifted the green on 14 closer to the canyon.

Shifted tees on many of the holes, added bunkers and redefined others. Redid the greens and eliminated mounds on the 18th fw. The routing is almost identical, so I'm not sure how much one can say it's a Rees course. Most of the greens did not have that great of character, so no great loss there. I don't like the tee and angle he introduced on 2. He turned a nice medium/short length par 4 with a blind tee shot into just another bruiser. Mounding has been added here and there throughout the property. I'll be going there in 2 weeks and give a photo presentation on how the course is looking leading up to the Open.
 

[Allan Long]

The routing is almost identical, so I'm not sure how much one can say it's a Rees course. 

David,

You make a great point, and it is for that reason that I don't know that one can really count Torrey as a Rees Jones course. Maybe I'm wrong, but since the routing that Billy Bell, Jr. laid out is basically what is there today, I would have a hard time not calling it a Bell course still. However, I am sure that Bell will get very little mention in June.

[Mike_Cirba]

Jay,

Let's see....how can I put this;

Billy Bell created a sort of nice routing, but none of the features or strategies really maximized the potential of the property, so you had a nice course on a startling location.   It was perhaps a Doak 5, 6 at best.

Rees Jones made the changes David listed above, and it's probably a 5 now, 6 best.

[Jay Flemma]

Oh my god, Mike, you never told me you liked pho (pronounced "fa" for those of you scoring at home.  And Allan, I'm a Penguins fan too!

Anyway, add in that Torrey is relatively flat and it looks like everyone will at least have an equal chance, if nothing else.

So glad you got Achmed the dead terrorist out of there:)  he was funny, but scary-looking too.

David I look forward to hearing your updated report.

[Pete Lavallee]

Mike,

Doak gave the original South course a 3; the North got a 4. I would be very interested in the score he would give the South today; I doubt it would be any higher than a 4 and wouldn't be surprised if it stayed a 3. It's a definetly a hard course but just not very interesting.

There will be two unique tees used for the Open that will be moderately interesting; the new 13th tee is 50 yards to the left of the original and requires a 250 yard carry over the barranca; it stretches the hole to over 600 yards. They will also use a tee that has always existed on the 16th hole about 40 yards to the left of the original box; it will also require a carry over the barranca but will shorten the hole by about 20 yards; making it around 190 yards. It will also bring the two front left bunkers more in play. I don't think Rees was involved in either of these additions, although that is just a guess on my part.

[Matt_Cohn]

The routing is almost identical, so I'm not sure how much one can say it's a Rees course.

True, but only four holes on the original course - 3, 6, 13, and 17 - utilized the routing or terrain in any way. Put differently, the routing and terrain didn't define very many of the original holes - the bunkers and rough and greens did, and Rees completely changed all of those.

A contrasting example would be Augusta or Pebble Beach, where the routing and terrain are *the* key factors that define many of the holes. That's just not the case at Torrey.

[Jay Flemma]

That's good analysis Matt.

[Mike_Cirba]

Jay,

Actually, the pronunciation I've heard is "Fuh", with a rising intonation, as in "Fuh?"

Or, as in "What the Pho?"

[Jay Flemma]

Yes, that's the phonetic sound I was going for, but missed.  No question that one's a double breaking putt.

[Forrest Richardson]

I am pretty sure it is 74% Bell and 24% Rees. But, I may have that backwards.