[Jim Thompson]

Actually Mike you only need one extra pin and three extra flags when you do the rotation and you take the pin to the previous green because a blue pin becomes a red, then you take that blue flag to the white that preceeded it and cut a blue, then take the white flag to the red before that and cut a red and so on.  At the end you put the first green flag in the cart for the next day.

[Andy Troeger]

Jim,
You're requiring golfers to actually think ahead and pay attention, come on that's never going to work! 

But as you say its all right there in front of them...take it or leave it!

[Mike McGuire]

Jim -

We have a few greens where there is no front placement. So a pure rotation is not possible. not a deal breaker but more work than its worth.

Another problem with the circus colors is when you get one wrong. Then the bitching gets strong.
Everyone has a different idea on where the front of the green is.

[Mike McGuire]

This may be a whole world - but it is a rather finely sampled one at that.

Mike

I think the reason this site works is because it is sampled.

[Jim Thompson]

Jim,
You're requiring golfers to actually think ahead and pay attention, come on that's never going to work! 

But as you say its all right there in front of them...take it or leave it!

Andy,

I am fully willing to accept that everythig is adn was always my fault.  Even when we spoon fed them they'd bitch that the spoon was to big.  How else could anyone have stayed in the business for that long.  It sure is nice to be out though!  I actually get to play now!

JT

[mike_beene]

We use one color(red) which half the male population cant see.I live with the pin sheet because you cant tell on 5 or 6 greens and ,if we are in good shape,you cant keep ball on green from above hole on half the holes. Even though I am not to the yard accurate,on old stay below the hole courses you need the info.

[Tim Gavrich]

I prefer the front-middle-back scheme, a different color for each.  I feel as though the flags should be guidelines, and I don't think courses should feel constrained to go 6-6-6.  I started a thread a while back that deals with this issue.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,27338.0.html

[Tim Bert]

I like pin sheets.  They are there if you want them; ignore them if you don't. 

Nothing worse than trying to ignore different colored pins, still being influenced by them, and then discovering that you and the person who stuck the pin in the hole have a different opinion of front / middle / back.

I also prefer a random mix of pin locations to the rotation front / middle / back and then repeat program.

[rchesnut]

We wanted to go to pin sheets, but the members complained about having to pick them up and carry them around. 

We did decide to go away from red white blue, the colors just looked out  of place on a golf course.  We've gone to green (front), white and gold (back).  The nice thing is that the gold stands out nicely for back pin positions, where it's sometimes hard to see the flag against a background of trees.  On some greens that aren't deep, we just have a white flag all the time.  On the greens that are very deep, I think the color coding helps provide information that may speed play...but the majority of golfers are not using some form of gps device and getting the exact yardage, so I'm not sure that it's even relevant anymore for most people. 

[Sean_A]

I say to hell with all the pimping of the flag information. Look up, there is a flag, have a guess and let fly. Who said you have to know to the last inch the position of the flag?

Gene Andrews ruined natural golf.

Bob

As is often the case, Bob is right.  Isn't it time we start giving archies a break?  Golfers want, carts, caddies, yardage guns, yardage markers, coded flags, pin sheets, drivers bigger than pumpkins, greens in full view, framed fairways, flat lies & stroke savers (have I missed anything?).  Tell me, why do we bother playing? 

Ciao

[James Boon]

I'm used to 2 different colour flags, say yellow for the first nine and red for the second nine. I've always assumed this was to tell the difference between greens in the distance which can sometimes be close together on links or older courses.

First time I played a resort course in Portugal that had the different colour flags for different hole positions, and the flag on the second hole was a different colour to the first, I thought I was on the wrong hole!

I prefer to get an indication of the yardage, say markers for 150 to centres, buts its only an indication and then I try and work the rest out by eye. Most of us would probably be better aiming for the middle of the greens anyway...

James

[Matt OBrien]

I recently played a course that had same color flags and 1,2,3 pin locations. On the first hole it told you what pin location was each day and on the score card it told you where that numbered location was on the that hole. You have the benifit of the same colored flags while also knowing where the pin was.

[Dan Herrmann]

Whatever happened to the mystery and intrigue of golf course architecture?  To borrow a line from Eric Pevoto, what do you want, big arrows painted on the course at various places to "help you navigate".

I've yet to meet an architect that likes things like multi-colored flags to describe hole position.   To me, it cheapens the experience.

Let me use Flynn's Rolling Green in Philly as a perfect example.  Many of the approach shots are uphill, some to green surfaces you can't necessarily see - from the approach.  But you can usually see them from afar - whether it's on the hole's tee or while you're walking by on another hole.

I'll never forget going to the Canadian Open in 1979 at Glen Abbey (Nicklaus).  I was following Lee Trevino on the first hole.  After he hit his approach, he actually jogged over, through the ropes, to get a good look at the 10th green.  Taught me a lesson that day....

[Walt_Cutshall]

Several years ago, I noticed that my depth perception was failing (along with a bunch of other things   ). Not long after that, we starting using flag color to indicate pin depth. It was a huge help to me (now I use a rangefinder, so the benefit is diminished). But for a while it was very frustrating to hit an approach shot exactly as I planned, only to find I'd left myself a 40' putt. And on our greens, you definitely do not want to leave yourself 40' putts.

Ideally, I'd prefer a pin sheet, but that seem pretty time consuming compared to the alternative.

Take it easy on us old guys.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Our club switched from Red, White and Blue flags to all yellow. The members are whining.

 Do many classic courses use this method?

What are other alternatives? Pin sheets- something on the tee....?

Or let them get used to it?

Mike,

Let me see if I understand and can paraphrase the issue, at your club and others.

The membership is whining because they used to have a coded three color hole location system, but, now have just one.

The average handicap at your club and others is probably 18, yet, golfers who can't hit the green from 150 yards want to know the precise location of the hole ?

Golfers who can't reach the green from 180 yards want to know the precise location of the hole ?

If your greens are 25 yards in diameter, a golfer hitting to the middle of every green shouldn't have a putt exceeding 22.5 feet.

I therefore encourage you to have your club remove ALL flags, and let the golfers hit to the middle of the green.

The precise location of the hole may be critical info for a PGA Tour Pro, however, it's almost useless to an average to high handicapper.

Fight the fight and keep the yellow flags.

[Dan Herrmann]

Patrick has a very good point. 

Some of the best golf I've ever played was after the flagsticks were taken in for the night.  Just shooting for the middle of the green really works.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

My former club uses the 3 color system. I tried to ignore the red(front) flags as, for the most part, they were "sucker" pins. Middle of the green should be the target for most recreational players.

[Melvyn Morrow]

As mentioned before I loved playing at different courses, the enjoyment of that first round, of not knowing the course. Just reading the scorecard and in the time honoured tradition of using my eyes to see the many unknown challenges, thus adds to my enjoyment, even on what may in the end proved to be an average course.

I don’t want help; I just want to play golf. I just can’t see the reason for all these aids. To me my judgement is part of the game; it’s a whole part of the pleasure of golf. I feel so sorry for those who feel they need these outside aids.

But if that’s the way you play your golf, well so be it – but let me tell you that you are missing a big chunk of enjoyment. 

[Jeff_Brauer]

One problem for the fair crowd is that they find even the Red White Blue system has flaws that hurt them. I have often gotten questions about whether a red should really be a white, or vice versa if there is a curved edge to the green - i.e. use the long flag to suggest that its better to play a bit long than short to avoid a putt around the corner.

Its not a bad idea since so many golfers want that info and the super wants to move the cup as far away from yesterdays location to spread wear.  And breaking the green into thirds is giving less info out than a pin sheet that may show it "ten yards from the front" and "three yards in from the left."  At least, its better if you believe that information overload just kills golf, no?

[Dean Stokes]

Who needs different colored flags and pin sheets?

The whole world will be using range finders soon! They'll be mandatory.

[CStrong]

I agree with P. Mucci.  I have made that same request for yellow flags and poles exclussively and been met with much resistance.  We currently have a three color system (yellow, green and white checked, white), which works well to identify the location.  My arguement has always been that the greens average 5000sqft. and the smart play is to the center.

When will the average golfer, and even the single digit handicap player realize that giving away the location of the the hole is only relevant with tour players?

[W.H. Cosgrove]

We began with a Red-White-Blue system.  With the evergreens in the Pac NW it was almost impossible to pick the blue flag out of the background, so we switched the deep flag to yellow.  

The purist in me hates the colored flags.  The realist in me favors them as they, I believe, speed up play and they reduce the need for pin sheets.  We have some three club greens at my home course, so they do provide a benefit.  

For big events we have white flags with fancy logos (which get stolen if we use them all of the time) and then we prepare pin sheets.  

Like any change, it requires at least thirty days for the discussion to die down and acceptance to settle in.  Worst choice is to make the decision to go with the colors and then let a vocal minority dictate that the change be reversed.  That process creates gridlock and stagnation almost immediatley and that condition is VERY difficult to reverse.

[Bob_Huntley]

I say to hell with all the pimping of the flag information. Look up, there is a flag, have a guess and let fly. Who said you have to know to the last inch the position of the flag?

Gene Andrews ruined natural golf.

Bob

Bob-

If you were responsible for the change would you phrase it the same way if a member questioned you?

Mike,

If it was a male member, yes. If it was a distaff member I would sanitize it somewhat.

Bob

[Rich Goodale]

It is rare, but for once I strongly disagree with Mssrs. Huntley and Mucci.

I say use all the technology possible, old and new, and vis a vis flags that means semaphores!  With proper coding and a a simple 10-20 page manual, there could be a three flag system on every hole which tells you not only the exact position of every pin, but also the daily Stimp reading and the Soup of the Day in the clubhouse.  Lie back and enjoy it, fellow geezers!

[Jeff_Brauer]

Rich,

But could it also give a prostate exam?

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