[Sean_A]

Every once in a while I hear murmurings of Aiken, Palmetto & Camden being little gems.  Can folks tell me more about these courses?  Are there any good pix people can post?  Talk to me you Dixie boys.

Ciao

[Jerry Kluger]

Look at Ran's reviews - I think he did a review of Palmetto

[Sean_A]

Look at Ran's reviews - I think he did a review of Palmetto

Jerry

I didn't notice any reviews by Ran or in the My Home Course section.  It is perplexing that these courses are so close to Ran yet he has seemingly not done a review. 

Ciao

[Ed Oden]

Sean, I've played Palmetto a number of times and love it.  Short, fun, a great walk.  There's really nothing not to like.  Plus, it is charmingly unpretentious in the way only a club comfortable with its historical pedigree can be.  Here are some pics I took last year.  Sorry for the mediocre quality.  I did not have my usual camera.

#1 - Par 4



#2 - Par 4



#3 - Par 4



#4 - Par 4



#9 - Par 3



#11 - Par 3



#13 - Par 4



#16 - Par 3



#18 - Par 4



The club's website also has some good pics/info  http://www.palmettogolfclub.net/index.html.

Ed

[Adam_Messix]

I hope someone is able to post a picture of #7 at Palmetto, a teriffic par three with a green benched into the side of a hill. 

The clubhouse was designed by Stanford White who also did Shinnecock Hills and Quogue Field Club.

[Jerry Kluger]

Sean: I was thinking of May River - check out Ran's review in courses by country.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Sean,

There are a bunch of pics (many oblique aerials) of Palmetto from the club web site:

http://www.palmettogolfclub.net/CoursePhotos.htm

Course restoration by Gil Hanse.

[John Shimp]

Sean,
Palmetto is a really old course with lots of architects hands on it.  Initially designed in 1892 for the wintering wealthy NYC crowd by Herbert Leeds primarily.  Later Alistair Mackenzie redid all the greens from Sand to grass and rebunkered and lengthened the course.  Recently the club redid the bunkering to a Mackenzie style by itself with advisement from Doak's firm.  Gil Hanse in the last 2 years oversaw a rebuilding of all of the putting surfaces and regrassing of the greens and fairways to mini verde and a hybrid bermuda.  Gil also recommended and oversaw the removal of around 100 trees, the reinstallation of 6-10 previous bunkers, and reestablishmnet of several original waste areas.  I first played Palmetto over 20 years ago and while its bunkers were not as good as they are now; the course was presented in a beautifully scruffy manner much like the best British courses.  The club is trying to go back to some of that feel while modernizing the course in the fairway and on the putting surfaces. 

The piece of land is much hillier than the pictures above show and the course has a fantastic set of of par 3 holes and some great par 4's as well.  Because of the numerous uphill approaches the course plays longer than its 6450 yds.  It plays as a par 71 but in my view should play as a 70 as hole 6 is 464 yds from the back tees and is easily reachable in 2 shots yet is played as a par 5. That being said it doesnt really matter as the course is fun but plenty challenging regardless of par. (Interestingly for the Palmetto Amateur and other events the course plays hole 6 as a par 4.  BTW, the tournament course is roughly 250 yds longer and has a 73.5 rating and 138 slope while the regular par 71 6450 course is a 72.0 rating and 134 slope.  In other words, the course is not easy.)  The playing conditions are dry, very firm and sandy.  There are no cart paths but carts are often used. 

The clubhouse is the 2nd oldest in the US and is a really neat Stanford White relice as was mentioned.  Tom Moore the pro is a great guy and runs the club with great passion.  If you go, you should definetely check out the memorabilia and all of the photos of Hogan, Nelson, and other famous types from the early and mid 20th century.  The club like most British clubs is very accomadating to guest play and doesn't feel any need to have tight introduction or member play along requirements.

[Michael Whitaker]

Every once in a while I hear murmurings of Aiken, Palmetto & Camden being little gems.  Can folks tell me more about these courses?  Are there any good pix people can post?  Talk to me you Dixie boys.

Ciao

Sean - Are you heading this way? If so, email me.

John Shimp has offered a great recap. Jamie Bryan is a member of Camden and will, I'm sure, offer his thoughts on that course. Jamie is working on a history of the course.

Both courses are old school gems that demand an excellent short game instead of great length. You would like both very much.

[J_McKenzie]

Sean,

I just added The Patriot plus a couple of images to the other South Carolina thread.  Good golf course that doesn't get a lot of mention here. 

[Tim Gavrich]

I loved Palmetto when my father and I played it three summers ago.  It was right during the renovation and the greens had been aerated and topdressed a couple days, so it wasn't in peak shape, but it was still excellent.  The aura of the place is perfect, I think: small, rustic clubhouse, very understated parking lot and practice area, friendly people.  It seems to be an excellent example of a "members club."

I had heard that even though Mackenzie is credited with turning the course into essentially what it is today, he never actually visited the site, and instead designed based on blueprints and maps.  Is this true?

[Sean_A]

Thanks all - especially John and Ed.  The info and pix are excellent.  Its nice to know that the pro is amenable to visitor play.  I won't ask how the members feel about that!

How much elevation change is there?  Do the greens have much movement - it seems like some could be greatly effected by surrounding slopes, but in a way which takes experience to read properly. 

How bout the other two courses?  Assuming one could get on these places, would it be a good 3 day trip from Raleigh?  This area seems like it could be quite attractive for golf.

Mike - I don't have any plans to visit SC, but I could see myself making the run down from NC for a few days when I next visit.  You never know, I may come out this October, but it isn't likely.  Next Easter is a better bet.  I may have used up all my golf BPs with a trips to Ireland and Philly and all the odd runs here and there. 

Ciao     

[Phil McDade]

Sean:

Some GCA posters have highlighted Aiken, described as stepping back in time, on to a course little changed since its inception many years ago. Very good value at @ $25 and some sleepered bunkers to boot!

Photos here:

http://www.aikengolfclub.com/index.html

[Sean_A]

Sean:

Some GCA posters have highlighted Aiken, described as stepping back in time, on to a course little changed since its inception many years ago. Very good value at @ $25 and some sleepered bunkers to boot!

Photos here:

http://www.aikengolfclub.com/index.html

Phil

Thanks!  Aiken actually looks pretty cool!  It looks like the sort of course I would enjoy.

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Sean-check your messages
Palmetto ,Aiken Golf Club, Midland Valley-all worth playing and reasonable.
Aiken's a great town
Thanks,
 Jeff

[Michael Whitaker]

Sean,

I just added The Patriot plus a couple of images to the other South Carolina thread.  Good golf course that doesn't get a lot of mention here. 

I second the vote for The Patriot. This course is completely overlooked by most "experts" because. like Musgrove Mill, it is out in the middle of nowhere. Outstanding course with a very thoughtful design.

You should consider The Patriot and Musgrove Mill. Both courses are only 40 miles or so from Williams-Brice stadium... and, October is a perfect time
to play these courses.

[Mike_Cirba]

John Shimp,

We should all strive to produce course descriptions as concise and informative as what you wrote about Palmetto.

[John Shimp]

Mike:  Thanks for the nice words about my description.

Sean:  There is a lot of elevation change at Palmetto and the greens have a ton of movement.  One of the more interesting things about the greens at Palmetto are how many run front to back which can make it very hard to stop any sort of hot iron.  (eg. hole 7, 9, part of 11, 13, 15, 16).  This is the case on all of the par 3 at all or some parts of the greens.  Someone made the comment that you have to have a good short game.  This is true as many of the greens repel approach shots well.  You have many opportunities to hit ground shots around the greens but few opportunities to hit low shots into the greens as they are too well bunkered and mostly severely raised.

My one disappointment with the rebuilt greens so far is that the mini verde still hasn't grown in well.  I played 9 holes last Friday afternoon and the putting surfaces were quite patchy and putted slow.  This is my first experience with mini verde but my expectation was that it would play more like some of the Champions bermuda surfaces i've been on (far less grainy than other bermuda, fast, and smooth).  Maybe Palmetto's supt doesn't yet have them where he wants them?

[Michael Whitaker]

John Shimp - I'm sure Rhett does not have the greens where is wants them yet if they are patchy and somewhat slow. Just up the road in Ninety Six The Patriot has mini verdae greens and they are generally outstanding... firm, fast and not a bit patchy. I think you will be really happy with the m-v greens when they are completely established.

[John Shimp]

Michael,
Good to hear on Mini Verde.
Thx

[Marty Bonnar]

John Shimp,

We should all strive to produce course descriptions as concise and informative as what you wrote about Palmetto.

Mike,
mucho agreement with two small, but perfectly formed, objections.

viz. the spellings of both 'Alistair' and , eh, 'Mackenzie'. Other than that, I'm okay with it.

John, 9/10.

"John is a capable student, but loses interest in detail. He must apply himself to assimilating all possible information upon a subject before embarking on interesting, yet ultimately flawed, discussions on golf architecture."
Mrs. Crabapple, John's 8th Grade Teacher, Sunnyvale, Iowa, 1986.

[Jamey Bryan]

Sean

Sorry I haven't responded before now, but I've been out of town with family issues.

First, I very much feel that this area merits a 3-5 day tour.  The classic courses of Camden, Palmetto, and Aiken are understated as "hidden gems," and I'd second Patriots and Muskgrove as "must plays" in the modern designs.  Columbia CC and some others have interest also.

Speaking to Camden......    Golf has been played in Camden (on approximately the same ground) since 1902.  The original course belonged to the Kirkwood Hotel, which catered to wintering Yankees.  The original course evolved (primarily laid out by resident pros).  In 1923, however, Walter Travis was retained to build a "Championship" layout which opened in December of that year.  The course had extremely undulating sand greens (Travis later patented the technique) and was a demanding 6700 yards.  Travis apparently stayed in Camden much of that winter, as the local paper reported that he was enjoying the new links daily.

In 1939, Donald Ross was retained to renovate the course, and to grass the greens.  Retaining the bulk of the Travis routing, Ross eliminated one hole, added one new hole, and made major modifications to two others.  Interestingly, the hole eliminated played (on the drive) over railroad tracks (another story in the local paper described a player who tired of waiting for a slow freight to clear and decided to drive over the train....   a poorly struck shot worked out when it passed through open doors on both sides of a boxcar).  Ultimately, the resulting course is almost entirely Ross greens with probably 80% Travis routing.  The course was renovated/"restored" in 1999, using Ross's green sketches.  Some mistakes were made, but I think the result is generally faithful to the original design.

The course has held its own over the years against high level play.  We've hosted the Carolinas Four Ball something like 52 of 55 years, along with numerous other regional events.  Some years ago we hosted a final stage qualifier for the US Am......  Camden was the only site in the country where even par qualified, even par was medalist at Camden and +4 qualified.  We drive the college kids crazy!!

In summary, a tour of this area is time well spent.  It's an easy living area with friendly folks, and plenty of good golf.  Come on down, I'd love to host you.

[Paul Payne]

Sean,

I have read your postings on courses that you have enjoyed and I think you really would like Aiken. I used to visit Aiken often and played both Palmetto and Aiken frequently. I love both courses and Palmetto has a more storied past but somehow Aiken really stole my heart. The greens are fantastic.

Cheers.

[John Shimp]

Sean,
I agree with Paul Payne that Aiken's greens are really fun and that it is enjoyable to play.  You shouldn't expect though Aiken to be the same test of your game that Palmetto is.  I'd describe Aiken as a great 2nd 18 in a 36 hole day (eg Elie after playing the Old Course or Kingsbarns).

[Adam Clayman]

I too played Palmetto some 20 something years ago and fondly remember the unpretentious scruffiness previously mentioned.
 My host told me Hogan use to prepare for the Masters there, due to the strength of the par 4's.
A most enjoyable walk with feelings of walking/golfing where many past greats had played.

I specifically recall the 18th teeing ground. I'm reminded of it every time someone rants about un-level teeing grounds. At that time it was a tiny little rectangular box resembling the back of whale.   I recall my host commenting on it and he thought it justifiable because of the shortish length of the hole in the modern game, at that time, an the added dimension it gave to the player, both physically and mentally.

If someone's a member at Palmetto, could you please IM me? I'm not looking for access, just trying to find out if one Dr. Mackie Walker is still a member.

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