[Sean_A]

Looking at Mike Sweeney's link to Merion was incredibly illuminating for a guy like me.  I have never seen so many good pix of the course. 

http://www.golfarch.com/Merion/

A few things really stand out:

1. Damn, the course looks to be quite hilly.  I never thought of Merion in that way.  Sure, I thought there was some elevation change, but not this much.  Does the course have one or two little valleys running through it which account for most of the up and down?  I don't get this sense by looking at the pix. 

2. The bunkering is almost exclusively cut off from short grass - it often looks a bit odd.  Is this the way the course always was or have the fairways been shrunk considerably? 

3. The rough looks to be very, very serious.  Is this just during lush growing times or tournies, or does Merion actively want rough most of the time?

4. The greens look to have some serious slope & contour and I suspect they are more so then can be spied from the pix.  Here is an example of what looks to be a mega false front. 


5. A very cool looking hole!  Easily the one hole I would pick from the pix that sets beautifully in its surrounds.


6. I sort of imagine the West to have the look of the above pic.  Is this the case?


I know its Augusta time, but I am a bit fed up already with the tourney and I would like to discuss what IS about Merion rather than conjecture and whatever concerning this great club. 

Ciao

[Bill_McBride]

The ongoing, never ending arguments do drag on, but I thought the photos posted by Wayne Morrison earlier this week of Bobby Jones' two rounds, shot by shot, were as enthralling as anything I've ever pored over on this website.  I've bookmarked those for future reference!

[Dan Herrmann]

Sean - 16 is a big time false front, and 17 is much more of a downhill shot (down into the quarry) than you'd think from that picture. 

[JESII]

Sean,

I didn't look through Sweeney's link, but you've gleaned pretty accurate information out of the photos.

As to question #6...the West is a really cool course and the maintenance prep from an overall appearance view is probably quite close to what you see on #17.

[G Jones]

The ongoing, never ending arguments do drag on, but I thought the photos posted by Wayne Morrison earlier this week of Bobby Jones' two rounds, shot by shot, were as enthralling as anything I've ever pored over on this website.  I've bookmarked those for future reference!

Which thread were these photos on??? I can't find it!

[tlavin]

The ongoing, never ending arguments do drag on, but I thought the photos posted by Wayne Morrison earlier this week of Bobby Jones' two rounds, shot by shot, were as enthralling as anything I've ever pored over on this website.  I've bookmarked those for future reference!

Which thread were these photos on??? I can't find it!

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,34052.0.html

And I hereby call a moratorium on Merion threads.  At least until I get to play it!

[Dan Boerger]

Like baseball, you love Merion because of the particulars. The rough is that punishing but the landing areas are that fair. You'll likely be called on for just about every type of shot and, if it's the first time you play it, you'll be certain you can score better. Until, of course, you play it next time. I have a good friend, and a member, who's a single digit handicap and in 20 years has gone around the East course exactly one time without a double bogey.

[D_Malley]

#16 is not really a false front in the sense i think of FF's.  it is more of a two tier green, although i have only seen the pin on the front tier a couple of times.  not sure if they use the front tier at all any more.  your ball will not roll off the green when it comes down the hill.

#17 green also pictured above has a similar feaqture on it's green.

[Mark_F]

Sean,

There is another picture on there of this hole:

     

Looks to be about a perfect a par three as anything you could want. 

Downhill, so distance judgement comes into play, a ridge through the green, a fan-shaped fallaway guarding right hand side rear pin positions?, the bunkering guarding other pin positions and requiring specific shot shapes and control,  water in front.

Ran posited on the Pine Valley course thread about it's third hole having way more options than a Redan, and wondering why its concepts haven't been copied more often.

I wonder if Merion's 9 has seen homage anywhere else?

What a terrific hole to look forward to.

[Sean Leary]

Is the Water Hazard necessary on number 9?  Looks kinda out of place to me (actually I think the pic makes it look better than in real life).

[Cory Brown]

Did anyone else notice the proliferation of divots at one area on the 18th fairway?
I am curious as to whether or not it is early preparation for the Open which has the fairways looking as narrow as they are, although maybe that is what they are normally like.
Also It seems as though the trees have started to encroach over the years.

[JESII]

Is the Water Hazard necessary on number 9?  Looks kinda out of place to me (actually I think the pic makes it look better than in real life).

A creek is a creek...they may have opened it up a bit to help with flood control (not really sure) but it's just there.

[Sean_A]

The one hole which really stood out as looking a bit odd is the 4th.  Can somebody run through the hole with me.  What is the par?  Has something about the routing changed or whatever.  It seems strange to have a fronting creek negated somewhat by the bunkering.  Was there flooding problems at one time?


Also, have the trees been cut back or have they never been allowed to encroach significantly on the playing zones. 

Ciao

[Mike Sweeney]

Little guy woke me up so here goes:

# 4 - Par 5 600 yards - Visually intimidating tee shot with a blind second shot to a drop down landing area. From memory, I think of the 4th green being tied into the creek as a kid. I believe there were many threads on those two bunkers in front which I believe were added by Fazio.

#9 - The damned up pond area of the creek has always been there, with a front pin it is in play. There actually used to be a pond at the bottom of the quarry on #17 which was never really in play. It was a mosquito heaven and they took it out in the 80's I believe. Today it is just tall wavy grass.

Trees at Merion have never really been in play. Fazio took out a bunch around 16 in the quarry on the right side, but it was more esthetic than playing. The only trees than come into play unless you hit a really bad shot are:

#2 - protect the cars from tee shots on the right side
#7 - protect the houses from tee shots
#12 - protect the dogleg on the right, they need to be there and always have
#1 - Now with modern play, I think it would be interesting to take out the trees on the right which visually block the green from the tee. Let's see Tiger and company go for that #1 green which is 330 yards or so via direct shot. Lots of OB right and deep sand to start a US Open.



Merion has never had a tree problem.

[JESII]

What he said...

[Dan Herrmann]

I also think Merion East has the biggest OB stakes on the planet.   You can see them here to the right (this is the tee of #2):



(they're actually very cool looking and add to the course's character)

[Jimbo]

With all due respect, the bunkers look incongruous to the parkland look arund them. At least in the latter pictures.

Have they always been so rugged? Or, maybe the question is has the rest of the course always looked so parky

When were the bunkers last redone?

[Mike Sweeney]

With all due respect, the bunkers look incongruous to the parkland look arund them. At least in the latter pictures.

Have they always been so rugged? Or, maybe the question is has the rest of the course always looked so parky

When were the bunkers last redone?

Jim,

There are literally 2-3 servers in Oz with old GCA.com threads related to this topic. In a nutshell, if you want to hold a US Open, which Merion did and does, then you build the current Merion bunkers.

Merion never has nor will it ever be a Poster Child for parkland golf, IMHO. Ignore the pictues.

[James Bennett]

Sean, Mark et all

One of the other fine attributes of #9 (par 3) is the very wide teeing area that is available, producing different lines of play into this green.

And, regarding the creek (which cuts in front of #4 green, #9 green and #11 green as well as some tee shots on #2, #5 and #10) - you will not lose a ball in it, but you are unlikely to be able to play out of it.  It is the most ideal of creeks for golf that you can imagine.

James B

[Mike_Cirba]

Sean,

You have a very perceptive eye for golf, even from viewing pics an ocean away.

The bunkers in the front of the 4th green...well...let's just say that those two and the two blocking balls from going in the creek to the left of the 5th fairway, both sets "restored" by Tom Fazio, are the only stupid bunkers on the course.

Interestingly both sets of bunkers had a shelf life of about 15 minutes in 1930, so they ended up in the "restoration" package.


Fellows;

If you want to see some other cool pics of Merion, a young kid doing an internship on the grounds staff a few years back put this together.   There is a ton of technical greenskeeping information, but if you scroll towards the bottom there are some wonderful pictures.

Enjoy!! 

http://www.hort.iastate.edu/turfgrass/internreports/merion.pdf

[ChipOat]

Mike Sweeney:

I'm afraid I must correct you on one thing re: trees at Merion.

To wit: The rather large trees that used to be up on the right edge of the quarry on #16 were very much in play as they blocked the right half of the green from the right 1/3 of the fairway - you had a clearer shot from the left rough.

The very first real event re: the East Course's restoration was an ad hoc removal of those trees by a soon-to-resign Green Chairman who, legend has it, had not cleared with the Board what was then a heinous crime of "changing" Merion (even though the trees weren't there in 1912+).

The removal of those trees was brilliant and really made the hole, IMO, even though it was an idea whose time was still 15-20 years in the future.

Incidentally, those were my first ever exposure to, as I call them, "Stupid Trees" - those "bunkers in the sky" that Tom Paul is convinced Tillinghast favored.  If he did, he shouldn't have.

But we've done that thread about 10 times already.

Needless to say

[Mike_Cirba]

Chip,

I'd also add that the removal of trees between 11 & 12, from behind 9 & 14, and the one you mentioned on 16 have all been really well done, at least from the standpoint of opening vistas.

[Sean_A]

Sean,

You have a very perceptive eye for golf, even from viewing pics an ocean away.

The bunkers in the front of the 4th green...well...let's just say that those two and the two blocking balls from going in the creek to the left of the 5th fairway, both sets "restored" by Tom Fazio, are the only stupid bunkers on the course.

Interestingly both sets of bunkers had a shelf life of about 15 minutes in 1930, so they ended up in the "restoration" package.


Fellows;

If you want to see some other cool pics of Merion, a young kid doing an internship on the grounds staff a few years back put this together.   There is a ton of technical greenskeeping information, but if you scroll towards the bottom there are some wonderful pictures.

Enjoy!! 

http://www.hort.iastate.edu/turfgrass/internreports/merion.pdf

Mike

Thanks for the link.  I would still be curious to know if the fairways were wider at one time.  I know folks talk about fairways shrinking - leaving bunkers stranded as it were, but I have seen some old pix posted on here which show some of Tillie's work to have the bunkering pushed to the sides without fairway extending to the far side.  Of course, Merion's bunkers are a bit more extreme in that there are alleys of rough separating the bunkering from the fairways. 

Ciao

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