Can slow play ameliorate the effect of the wind ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

It took the last group, FIVE (5) hours to play the golf course .... in twosomes.

It appeared as though competitors paused/delayed for substantive amounts of time to let the wind die down or change direction.

Should this be permitted ?

[Joe Hancock]

Of course the wind should be permitted to die down and change directions.....

To your point, however, why ask the governing body to speed up play after they keep lengthening the course? Just the added walk times would be significant on some courses.

Joe

[Mike_Cirba]

This was the most boring, tedious, dull, lifeless, and stilted golf tournament I've ever seen.

If this is the future of golf, give me football.

All Praise be to Trevor Immelman, but that guy makes Nicklaus in his prime look like John Daly on speed.

[wsmorrison]

The tournament has lost a lot of appeal.  Much of the excitement is gone because the risk/reward equation has been altered with way too much risk.  It is like watching a hockey team protect a 2-goal lead.  Boring.

[Dale_McCallon]

I wouldn't go quite as far as Mike C, but watching the tourney was a bit rough with the slow play.  

I was shocked by how many time IBF mentioned how quickly Snedeker played--everytime I saw him he seemed to be waggling, stepping away, etc.  Maybe compared to Immelman he was fast, but it didn't seem that way.  That being said, I was pulling for him--he seems to be a really good guy--even if he did go to Vandy.

[Patrick_Mucci]

My life must be becoming too mundane, I thought the tournament was very interesting.

And, if Tiger makes birdie at # 13, I don't think he bogies # 14 and I think things would have heated up.... quickly.

You can't discount the cool, breezy weather today.

I thought it was a great tournament.

How long are the approach shots these guys are hitting after hitting 325 yard drives ?

I think slow play hurt the telecast.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
There was a lot of backing off but I don't thik it's possible to ever stop it. If the speed of the gusts was anything near constant there wouldn't have been any golf today.

I always enjoy The Masters, but the putting left something to be desired and no one ever stayed on the horse for 8 seconds.

[Sean_A]

To be fair, Little I was gonna be a tough guy to beat today.  When they teed up I thought he would be unlucky to lose if he shot a 72.  Tiger was always in trouble as I thought he needed a 68 to have any chance.  It was certainly doable for him, but I never really thought he could pull it off.  The only guy I thought might give Little I some hassles was Casey and he had a serious meltdown.  This has been one of the few times that I thought the tourney was done and dusted after the last group played 13. 

Because of slow play I walked away from the telly quite a bit.  Its just too difficult to listen to commentator bs for so long.  Without a doubt, The Masters seems to be slipping down the list of golfing musts for me.  It doesn't seem to have the pizzaz it once did.

Ciao

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
I just wanted to add that I though most of the backing off occurred between gusts, and gusts are usually less than 20 seconds long.   

[jeffwarne]

The course played TOUGH today.
Tiger's waiting endlessly for the wind to stop so he could reach was borderline, but...
it made great theatre. How could that NOT BE RISK REWARD?-refusing to listen to your caddie about laying up!
8-10 years ago the discussion would've been whether it was 5 or 6 iron (it was into the wind )

Snedeker's bold drive on 13 set up a chance for eagle (he made bogie)
You guys just got skewed memories in the 90's of a tournament with 1950-60's yardages and 1990's+ technology.
On a warm,calm spring day on the 1978 replay they were all hitting woods into 13 and 15!

There have been many days like this before (and worse) in Master's history-tough weather-tough scoring

[Mike_Cirba]

It's the BernhardLangerization of the game.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Bill Gayne]

I really enjoyed the tournament and thought it was significantly better than last  year. Immelman was never forced into any high risk/reward situations because his pursuers never put enough pressure on him. I really thought Tiger was going to put on the pressure after his putt on eleven but it never happened. I'm guessing that ten under will be the low score for any of this years majors. Slow play is a huge problem with the constant backing off not just for wind but crowd movement, sounds, taking three looks at putts from 15 fdifferent angles, etc.

Wayne, The Flyers only viable strategy was to play protect after trying to match up to the Caps on Friday and wasting away a two goal lead.

[jeffwarne]

Bernhard may be faster than these guys

[JSlonis]

Wind or no wind, these guys are painfully SLOW!

I was at the Master's all day on Friday and the main thing that stood out to me besides the greatness of the course and the players was just how slow these guys play.  It was unbelievable.

We followed the Immelman, Weekly, O'Hair pairing in the morning and they were a hole behind by the 3rd hole...were told to speed up on #5 and were put on the clock on #10.  It wasn't just their group, it is a collective problem.  On #8 in the afternoon, I watched as Harrington took at least 3 minutes to play a pitch shot from behind the green.

Tiger's group was the 2nd to last, as they walked to the 14th tee, they had already been on the course for 4 hours and 15 minutes.

To call tour players deliberate would mean we'd have to change the meaning of the word.

[A.G._Crockett]

After church, I hurried home and pulled weeds for two hours to be right ready for the telecast at 2:30.  By 4:30, I was back in the yard spreading mulch.  That was WAAAY more interesting than watching the preshot routines of Snedeker and Immelman.  Just painful.

As to whether or not the changes to the course are good, can anybody honestly see a 30 coming in as a realistic possibility?  I live in GA, and I know the wind was blowing today, but I just don't see the same opportunities that Hogan, Player, and Nicklaus had.  Pity, IMO.

[Brent Hutto]

It's a race to the bottom in big-time golf. There is a potential competitive advantage to becoming the slowest player out there. If you can accomodate your playing style to a glacial pace then being the slowest player in your group is never going to hurt you and there's always the chance that it will drive one of your fellow competitors (either in the same group or playing behind you) into getting annoyed and distracted.

If someone distracted by your slow play hits even one shot poorly due to the distraction, well that's one shot advantage you  gain over them isn't it? So the only rational thing to do is train yourself to become very deliberate, to the point where nothing seems too slow to you. If you spend every day on the golf course learning to move slower and slower and slower you will never be the guy who gets out of rhythm from someone else's slow play.

Of course all it takes to stop this situation in its tracks is for there to be certain, serious and immediately bad consequences for playing slowly. I can't see that ever happening so we're going to be treated to ever slower players on TV and ever longer rounds at our courses. I look forward to the Masters far more than any other televsised golf event. After today it is hard for me to imagine watching more than a couple holes here or there of any further events this season other than the Open Championship. Having played at Royal Birkdale a few months ago I will definitely use the DVR to see as many actual shots playing in the Open as possible this summer. Otherwise, you can take the whole lot of slow-playing boring grinds and keep them.

[Joe Bausch]

This thread seems like a decent place to post a funny snippet from a Tilly article I recently found from 1911:

[Paul Stephenson]

The excitement of the Masters has gone from a NASCAR race to Formula One.

Maybe it's the course.  Maybe it's the weather, but I miss the lead changes a Sunday at the Masters used to bring.

[Andy Troeger]

I think some Masters have always been more viewer-friendly than others, depending on how close things were on the back nine. I was worried after yesterday that unless Tiger made a charge that it would become a runaway. The slow play doesn't help matters either. I don't think it had all that much to do with the golf course; nobody made a move except backwards and the wind played a major factor in that.

It was certainly the least entertaining Masters for me in the last few years, but there were ones before that weren't so exciting either.

[C. Squier]

I think the back 9 at the Masters always FEELS slow, because we're all anxiously awaiting what *may* happen on that famous back 9.  There is no other 9 holes that has the history or capability of providing the kind of excitement that it does at AN.  If it were at a course that we all didn't intimately know the back 9 as well, I don't think it would feel as slow.  The waiting is painful when we know what could happen.....especially w/ Tiger's birdie on 11. 

As for the 5 hours, I can give the hall pass to anyone trying to win a Green Jacket.  A moment that can change their life trumps my viewing preferences by a mile. 

[Mike_Cirba]

This past Wednesday evening I stopped by a new course on my way home from work.

It was obvious from the road that the course was quite hilly, and when I pulled into the parking lot at just before 5:30pm, I saw every golfer on the course in a cart.

I went in and asked if I could walk, figuring I would probably only get in something less than 18 holes before dark anyway.

As things turned out, most of the players out there were already on the back nine, and the one group I ran into let me play through on 7.   

I ended up walking the course, and playing all 18, finishing about 7:50.

I don't care if a person is playing with their life on the line;  a five hour round is an abomination and inexcusable.

[jeffwarne]

If Tiger makes a 5 footer on 13, hits it into the 800 foot square  birdie funnel on 14, makes the shortie on 16 (or pulls off eagle on 15 after the wind delay refusal to lay up) we're all talking about what an incredible comeback and great roarful Masters it was .

He didn't so it wasn't.

But frankly until 14 I thought he could've so our interest was held for 14 holes(4 hours )

[Doug Siebert]

You guys just got skewed memories in the 90's of a tournament with 1950-60's yardages and 1990's+ technology.
On a warm,calm spring day on the 1978 replay they were all hitting woods into 13 and 15!

Yes, I saw that too and hoped all the whiners on GCA would be watching and noticing that it was always a risk to go for the green on 13 and 15 until the equation got screwed up by technology while the course stood still for a time (until Tiger made it just too obvious they needed to do something when he started hitting wedges into the par 5s....he was taking a really big "risk" there, yeah right!)

I guess we'll need to wait to see a Masters where there isn't a lot of rain that makes the fairways soft and it isn't cool and windy on Sunday so the whiners can see the "risk/reward" they want....by which they mean a good shot leaves an eagle chance, a halfway decent shot puts you on the green somewhere with a likely two putt birdie, and it takes a total choke ala Ballesteros or Norman to find the water on 13 or 15.

Plus they could bring back the spectacle of the journeyman golfer who hits it into the water and then hits his second into the water to get 7 or 8.  CBS used to like those guys, they'd replay some poor sap doing that on Thursday and Friday on Saturday and twice on Sunday to accentuate the "risk", because they knew there really was no risk and everyone and his brother was going to go for the green in two, just a matter of what iron they'd hit.  There are still a couple 7s and 8s on those holes, but they aren't showing them all the time like they used to because the risk is obvious so they don't need to try to prove to viewers that those holes aren't just par 4s in disguise.

[Doug Siebert]

The excitement of the Masters has gone from a NASCAR race to Formula One.

Maybe it's the course.  Maybe it's the weather, but I miss the lead changes a Sunday at the Masters used to bring.

So you are saying it has become more exciting?  Because surely you can't suggest that watching NASCAR's 1000 left turns is more exciting than Formula One... 

[A.G._Crockett]

You guys just got skewed memories in the 90's of a tournament with 1950-60's yardages and 1990's+ technology.
On a warm,calm spring day on the 1978 replay they were all hitting woods into 13 and 15!

Yes, I saw that too and hoped all the whiners on GCA would be watching and noticing that it was always a risk to go for the green on 13 and 15 until the equation got screwed up by technology while the course stood still for a time (until Tiger made it just too obvious they needed to do something when he started hitting wedges into the par 5s....he was taking a really big "risk" there, yeah right!)

I guess we'll need to wait to see a Masters where there isn't a lot of rain that makes the fairways soft and it isn't cool and windy on Sunday so the whiners can see the "risk/reward" they want....by which they mean a good shot leaves an eagle chance, a halfway decent shot puts you on the green somewhere with a likely two putt birdie, and it takes a total choke ala Ballesteros or Norman to find the water on 13 or 15.

Plus they could bring back the spectacle of the journeyman golfer who hits it into the water and then hits his second into the water to get 7 or 8.  CBS used to like those guys, they'd replay some poor sap doing that on Thursday and Friday on Saturday and twice on Sunday to accentuate the "risk", because they knew there really was no risk and everyone and his brother was going to go for the green in two, just a matter of what iron they'd hit.  There are still a couple 7s and 8s on those holes, but they aren't showing them all the time like they used to because the risk is obvious so they don't need to try to prove to viewers that those holes aren't just par 4s in disguise.

Doug,
FWIW, the last two springs in GA have been at least reasonably firm and fast.  Last year far more than average, this year probably average or a little firmer.

Hogan, Player, and Nicklaus all shot 30 coming in, granted over a 25 yr. plus span.  There were other "charges" as well, as well as numerous collapses. Can you see 30's happening now in ANY weather conditions?  I can't, and that is a shame. 

Taking nothing whatsoever away from Zach Johnson or Immelman, The Masters is now much, much more like the U.S. Open than like its previous self.  Again, that's a pity.