What are your favorite courses with low slopes?

[Matt Schoolfield]

I'm back in Austin for Thanksgiving, and I played Lions this afternoon. The slope from the whites there is 118, which is pretty low for my normal rounds. I had a good time with plenty of room for recovery in one direction on every hole. It was really fun. What are some other good low slope courses? Let's say "low slope" means less than 120, but ideally less than 110.

Here's a random photo from under one of the largest live oak trees on the course:

[Kalen Braley]

Pacific Grove, 110 from the Whites.
Gamble Sands, 109 from Green (middle tees)

[Tom_Doak]

There are lots of good courses with a Slope under 120 - I think The Loop qualifies from the white tees.  But to get under 110 it has to be pretty short.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Brora, White Tees 110.


The system doesn't understand links golf and has led to many new bunkers to toughen the courses up. Thankfully Brora has rejected this, but if grazing is finished here the course will play tougher in future with no change to slope. The recent rainfall pattern in the UK has also made links rough brutal for extensive periods, again with no effect on the ratings.

[Doug Bolls]

Lake Arlington in Arlington, TX is a fun course with a varied layout.  Blue slope = 118.  White slope = 115.  Designed by Ralph Plummer in 1963, the course follows the lay of the land quite well.  Front 9 terrain is basically flat and very walkable.  Any bunkering is around the greens.  Every green is open from the front and accessable by chipping/putting.  Water on the sides of #2,3,4 as you approach the green.  No forced carries.  Fairways are tree lined with generous width.
Back 9 has elevation changes - very different from the front.  12 has a blind landing area downhill,  then up to the green.  13 is uphill and dogleg left.  14 par 4 about 60 feet downhill.
15 plays below the dam of Lake Arlington with a forced carry over a water outlet from the dam.  Again, all greens accessable from the front.  Bunkering only around the greens.
It's a good muni and priced ($25.75 + $19 cart) well.

[Simon Barrington]

There is a persistent (and incorrect IMHO) fascination across our game with distance as a measure of skill, and it has so many detrimental effects.One thing that intrigues me is the apparent misuderstanding of Slope. (Please do correct me if I am wrong as I am yet to complete a single WHS scorecard, as the card & pencil mentality is not how I enjoy playing golf)

Most golfers seem to champion a course with a high Rating and steep Slope as being a measure of a good/difficult course.

However if one considers Sunningdale Heath (which Dai & I both played recently) it has a Slope of 93 from the regular Silver Tees (Par 58 & Rating 58) from the Silver Posts it's Slope is 98 (Par 58 & Rating 60).

So a Scratch Player is relatively more challenged to match his Index than the Bogey Player who is less impacted.

Low players find it very hard to beat their index as the lack of their driving advantage is palpable with 14 Par 3's and many of these with decent length, so they are tested through the bag. Bogey players seem to find it far easier to match their Index.

That seems to be the right way round to me for maximum enjoyment, and challenge at the top end of ability too.

Perhaps that is the way to go? Design to create courses with a shallower slope?

As so often in Golf it is the opposites that prevail...

P.S.
Painswick from the White Tees is Slope 110 (Par 67 Rating 64.8 and from the Yellow Tees Slope 105 (Par 67 Rating 63.9)

[Sean_A]

Kington is my favourite course. Yellow tee slope is 117.

Ciao

[Andy Shulman]

I'll nominate the Blue Course at East Potomac Golf Links. The scorecard says the slope from the White tees is 111, but when I post my scores, it's a 107(!) despite its 6,200-yard length. The course is as flat as Talking Stick with minimal trouble, but does have a few challenging greens, most notably #s 5, 9 and 17. Ultimately, it presents us mid-handicappers who reside in the city with an excellent opportunity to go low close to home.


Tom will be overseeing a rehabilitation/renovation that I understand may include making the course reversible like it was when it first opened. The National Links Trust, which operates the course, holds an annual Reversible Day fundraising event.

[Sean_A]

Eagle Springs is 113 from the back tees.

Of my 10 favourite I could only find two courses showing the slope with a cursory look. Many clubs in the UK still don't publish their slopes.

Ciao

[David_Tepper]

Lincoln Park in San Francisco is 110 from the blues and 108 from the whites. While those slopes are low, the actual slopes on the course are pretty steep.

[Joe_Tucholski]

I know this isn't the question but I looked at each of the US Open Courses going back to 1950.  None had a slope under 120.  US Open courses are stereotypically hard.  I used course.bluegolf for my information.  If it had a scorecard I used that information if not I used the course information data (understand small inaccuracies can change the results in this).


The top 5 courses with the lowest slope for member play were:
Champions Golf Club - 122
Pinehurst #2 - 126
Chambers Bay - 127
Northwood Club - 127
Erin Hills - 129
Torrey Pines - 129


The lowest slope for longest listed course:
Northwood - 133
Champions Golf Club - 134
Shinnecock Hills - 138
Pinehurst #2 - 138
Chambers Bay - 139


Also wondered what the lowest slope/yard was (all of these were from the back tees)
Champions Golf Club - 0.0180
Erin Hills - 0.0185
Torrey Pines - 0.0186


The lowest slope/yard from forward tees:
Pinehurst #2 - 0.0199
Champions Golf Club - 0.0200
Medinah #3 - 0.0201


Champions Golf Club isn't course I've seen discussed here all too often.

[Thomas Dai]

Simon makes a valid point when mentioning Sunningdale Heath above. Courses akin to it, ie short on the card, can, irrespective of slopes and course ratings and all that malarkey, be some of the most interesting and fun courses to play. And they not necessarily easy either, indeed they often have plenty of sneaky challenge particularly as scoring expectations are high and this can have quite an effect between a players ears.

Atb

[Niall C]

Of my 10 favourite I could only find two courses showing the slope with a cursory look. Many clubs in the UK still don't publish their slopes.

Ciao

Good on them. Another metric we don't really need and which in a worst case scenario simply leads to paint by numbers approach to design.


Niall

[Michael Felton]

Simon makes a valid point when mentioning Sunningdale Heath above. Courses akin to it, ie short on the card, can, irrespective of slopes and course ratings and all that malarkey, be some of the most interesting and fun courses to play. And they not necessarily easy either, indeed they often have plenty of sneaky challenge particularly as scoring expectations are high and this can have quite an effect between a players ears.

Atb

My highest differential that I can recall came at the pitch and putt course at Flushing. Par 54. Course rating was about 49.5 and slope was about 78 I think. The greens are tiny and the bunkers have beer cans and rocks in them and they're not far from the greens either. I shot I think 59 and was pretty pleased with that. If that's what it was it came out to a +13.8 differential. For comparison, to get that on the blue tees at Bethpage Black, I'd have to shoot 97. I'd be pretty upset about shooting 97 and was quite pleased with my 59.


I've not played Sunningdale Heath since the WHS came into play, but when I have played it it's been tremendous fun and makes you think. As Simon noted you can't overpower it. 14 par 3s and some of them are no slouch. It also I think has two holes back to back that are the same yardage (and run parallel to each other in opposite directions), but one is a par 3 and the other a par 4. The par 3 is down the hill and the par 4 goes back up it. Both holes are about 235 yards. From memory - I hope I have this right!

[Jason_Bernardon]

That’s an easy one for me. My home club - Norfolk G&CC. Slope from the back tee is 116 (if you play the 9 holes twice it’s 5192 yards, Par 68, 65.7 rating)

Nice little profile here

https://www.instagram.com/share/BAOiSFB-GA

[John Kirk]

Tokatee Golf Club is about 50 miles east of Eugene, OR.  Tokatee has a 118 slope from the white (third set of) tees.  It is exceptionally beautiful there.


Plumas Lake Golf Club is in the northern Central Valley about 10 miles south of Marysville, CA.  It has a slope of 123 from the blues and 120 from the whites.  Plumas Lake was once ranked among the top ten public courses in the nation [Golf Digest's "100 Greatest Golf Courses - and Then Some (1982)].  At the time it was renowned for its fast, smooth greens.  It's a nice place, though much less dramatic than the modern greats being built today.

[astavrides]

Plumas Lake Golf Club is in the northern Central Valley about 10 miles south of Marysville, CA.  It has a slope of 123 from the blues and 120 from the whites.  Plumas Lake was once ranked among the top ten public courses in the nation [Golf Digest's "100 Greatest Golf Courses - and Then Some (1982)].  At the time it was renowned for its fast, smooth greens.  It's a nice place, though much less dramatic than the modern greats being built today.

Interesting that I've played 174 courses in Northern CA and never heard of that one til now.

[Ira Fishman]

I believe that Kilspindie has a slope under 115. A course that is defines fun with a number of really good golf holes.

[Sean_A]

That’s an easy one for me. My homeclub - Norfolk G&CC. Slope from the back tee is 116 (if you play the 9 holes twice it’s 5192 yards, Par 68, 65.7 rating)

Nice little profile here

https://www.instagram.com/share/BAOiSFB-GA

Cheers. This course looks excellent.

Ciao

[Paul Jones]

Does anyone have the formula or documentation on how the slope is calculated?

[Michael Felton]

Does anyone have the formula or documentation on how the slope is calculated?

For men, it's (bogey rating - course rating) x 5.381. For women, it's (bogey rating - course rating) x 4.240.


Course rating is what a "typical" scratch player should shoot on a "good" day. Bogey rating is what a "typical" bogey player/18 handicap should shoot also on a "good" day.