Does the play of past champs tell us anything about the course?

[George Pazin]

I'll admit it - I love seeing the past champs teeing it up. I think it's great to see Player out there, and have loved watching Jack, Arnie, Gay Brewer, etc., over the years.

Does it say anything about the course - good or bad - that it seems every year an older past champion like Lyle or even O'Meara is on the leaderboard?

[Jim_Kennedy]

I think it does George. If nothing else it establishes ANGC as the ultimate 'Member's Course', the place where 'The Oldest Member' can occasionally make mincemeat out of the young whippersnapper even though he's forgotten more about the course than the whippersnapper  will ever know.

Playability must also figure in there somewhere.   

[Adam Clayman]

George, It mattered to Dr. Mackenzie that a player who plays well can score well on a quality golf course. It illustrates to me while many of the changes to ANGC seem ill-advised, the majority of the principles are still there.
If I'm not mistaken the second cut proves the adage we've been talk'in about for years. The guise of doing something they think makes it harder, when in actuality, makes the course easier.

[Peter Wagner]

Hi George,

I would think that the lack of rough helps the older guys.  The second cut is 1 5/8 inches I think and that's got to help level the field a little.

Another reason might be the premium placed on putting at Augusta during the Masters.  Age has little to do with good putting... ask Ben Crenshaw.

Best,
Peter

[TEPaul]

In my opinion, ANGC is a course that really rewards true local knowledge, particularly local knowledge in approach and green knowledge and obviously many of those past champions have that in spades.

[JESII]

Adam,

With soft fairways, I don't think the rough really widens the course all that much and, strangely, the greens look pretty firm which should make controling the ball out of the rough a bit tougher.



George,

I think familiarity and playability have to get full credit for the coupld of guys that show up every year and post a good score. I can't see an argument crediting the specific architecture though...

[Adam Clayman]

Sully, Many of the shots I saw hit into greens yesterday did not exemplify firm. Even the putting was slower than expected. The ball creep was significantly reduced from years past.

[Jordan Wall]

George,

I noticed this as well, and found it very interesting.  I doubt for a second people would have figured that Mark Omeara, Zach Johnson, and Sandy Lyle would all be in contention after day one.  Tiger, Phil, and Vijay are also just a couple shots back.  Each year it seems that past winners, some of whom never play well in any other PGA Tour events nowadays, find a way to sneak on the leaderboard at the Masters.  Last year Ben Crenshaw played amazing and is a perfect example of this.

The reason for this, in my mind, has to be the golf course.  Whether it was lengthened, trees were added, greens were faster, the fact that former champions always seem to find a way to creep on the leaderboard shows me how much of a strategic course Augusta really is.  It showcases that there really are certain ways to play holes that former winners understand and the rest of the field not, hence the leaderboard and the low scores from past champions.  Be it certain places to be in fairways, knowing when to play away from the hole and what part of the green to hit it to, or what club to hit off the tee, these past champions always seem to get it.  That to me speaks volumes about Augusta, because it shows that after years of tinkering, it proves that strategizing around the golf course is the best way to go low.

 

[Guy Nicholson]

Does it say anything about the course - good or bad - that it seems every year an older past champion like Lyle or even O'Meara is on the leaderboard?

It may say something about the course, but I think it tells us more about the format. This is one of a tiny number of events where a large number of older golfers play the same tournament as regular tour pros.

I suspect it would happen more often if the field regularly included a dozen older but competitive guys on courses they've played many times. To wit: Lyle and O'Meara have both made a cut in recent years at the Open. Tom Watson's done it three times.

[George Pazin]

I forgot I even posted this thread! A senior moment at age 40 doesn't bode well for me....

I think the performance of older players, as well as the diversity of the leaderboard - old guys, young guns, bombers, straight hitters, etc - speak volumes about a course that responds to thoughtful play.

Does it say anything about the course - good or bad - that it seems every year an older past champion like Lyle or even O'Meara is on the leaderboard?

It may say something about the course, but I think it tells us more about the format. This is one of a tiny number of events where a large number of older golfers play the same tournament as regular tour pros.

I suspect it would happen more often if the field regularly included a dozen older but competitive guys on courses they've played many times. To wit: Lyle and O'Meara have both made a cut in recent years at the Open. Tom Watson's done it three times.

Very interesting observation, gotta think about it a bit more.

[Pete_Pittock]

Miss the Augusta National greens and many times you are in a world of hurt, especially if you are short-sided or long. Being short doesn't seem too bad in relation to other misses. If you look at the past champions, many of their misses would be short, via lack of length or a more accurate shot pattern.