5 hours golf and resorts, is this the root of all evil?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I just returned from Cabo which as you know is far from the root of all evil, unless you think watching girls in short skirts dance the night away on tables over your head evil. Of course then they drop into your lap like blessings from above. However by day golf and beaches dominated the Tigers time. I found the golf average to ok but the 5 hours rounds reminded me of a resort issue. Do these 5 hour rounds contribute to the decline of golf? I find them on the edge of unbearable even with views which take your breath away.

[Joel_Stewart]

For you and me and the rest of this group yes, but for the average Joe that plays a few times per year No.  If you're fleeing from the cold weather and looking to commune with nature and walk around the golf course looking at the ocean, 5 hours may be too short.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Official pace of play for this year's Masters is 4:45, so getting a four-ball around in just 15 extra minutes looks to be great marshalling!

[John Kavanaugh]

Let's not forget that the paying public is shelling out $250 per person per round.  Anything under 4.5 hours feels like when a waitress gets your plate as you are still swallowing the last bite.

[Pete_Pittock]

You will be demanding a five time limit when you show up for the King's Putter. After all the complaining about slow play, our actual pace is glacial.

[Melvyn Morrow]

5 Hours, its hard to comprehend that a game of golf can take that long.

In my younger days in the 70-80’s we would spend the day at a course starting at 9am back for a light lunch and out by 2pm for the second 18.
It gave us good value for money and the chance to address errors made
in the morning before retiring to the Club House or near pub for a few drinks.

To have taken 5 hours would have killed the day and game, but then I am talking of courses in the UK. I must admit that most of the time we selected the lesser known courses, for the most part it proved to be a good idea. Plus being able to take in 36, gives more to the golfer. 

I do miss those happy days – all day golf, many pints in the pub afterwards and that great welcome when I rolled in after midnight ‘what time do you call this – your meal is in the (garbage) bin’ from the love of my life – Oh Happy Days.   The only 5 hour games I was ever allowed usually took place with my wife to make up for my hours on the course & in the pub.
I remember I was quite fit in those days, can’t understand why as I only played golf! 

PS All done without any cart or electronic artificial aids. 

[Tim Leahy]

Anyone who plays weekend public golf in California would be thrilled with five hour rounds. Do you think your rounds would have moved quicker if they were earlier in the day like pre 8am or later like after 2pm? I have found that playing late or early presents more opportunity to play quicker.

[Tom Huckaby]

IN GENERAL, five hours is way too long to spend playing 18 holes of golf.  IN GENERAL, one should be able to play 36 holes in that time.

And in the UK at many courses, I'm sure that can be done; just as I'm sure four hours is IN GENERAL more than most rounds take.

But Melvyn, what you have to understand is this:  taking all judgments out of this and just assessing things as are, the course that my friend John B. is talking about are indicative also of many courses here in the USA in this respect:  the holes are quite spaced apart, with long treks from green to tee, and thus are intended to be played out of carts for the most part.  In any case, they are a whole different matter (if not different game - my we have battled over that too much in here) than the courses in the UK, where IN GENERAL the distance from green to tee is minimal.

So while it is likely true that UK golfers do play the game faster than us Americans, well... I'd also defy the fastest UK golfer to get around Cabo del Sol in less than 4 hours - and make that 5 hours on days with the tee sheet as crowded as it normally is there.

So Melyvn, I am not sure how far you were taking it in your post, but well... bear all this in mind in case you were going to make sweeping generalizations about UK golfers v. US, and how long the game SHOULD take.

Yes, in a perfect world a round of golf takes no more than 3.5 hours.  But if you have been to Cabo, you know that on at least some of the courses there, taking 5 hours ain't the world's worst thing.  There's more to life than fast golf, and those courses are pretty darn great, with some wildly incredible views (as John alludes to).

Bottom line:  five hour rounds ought to be utterly cryit downe, for sure.  But some courses surely do take longer than others to play even under the best of conditions.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

yech

[Tom Huckaby]

Very biblical and Byrd-like, John.

I also fully agree.

TH

[Matthew Hunt]

I have only ever played one roung ever over 5 hours (It took over 6!) Afterwards I felt like giving up golf!

[Tom Huckaby]

I have only ever played one roung ever over 5 hours (It took over 6!) Afterwards I felt like giving up golf!

Which is understandable if one is used to sub-four hour rounds, and/or the course or company sucked.

But put me on a great course with good company, and I don't truly care all that much how long the round takes.  Oh, waiting forever is surely not the preferred way to play this game, and six hours does stretch things past the breaking point.  But put me on Pebble Beach on a nice day with my playing partners being my Dad, Bob Huntley, and basically anyone else, and I won't want the round to end.

Which really is the point of JK's turn turn turn post.

TH

[Chris Avore]

maybe i'm just beaten into submission, but I basically expect 5 hour rounds on the county muni or decent daily fee track. 

while some rounds can certainly be faster, a round basically has to crawl to 5 and a half to (gasp!) 6 hours for me to really notice and get fired up.

[Tom Huckaby]

Chris - I have situations like that too - at my home course on the weekend, 5 hours is racing fast.  It's just a fact of life on a crowded course, so one lives with it.

TH

[Bill_McBride]

5 Hours, its hard to comprehend that a game of golf can take that long.

In my younger days in the 70-80’s we would spend the day at a course starting at 9am back for a light lunch and out by 2pm for the second 18.
It gave us good value for money and the chance to address errors made
in the morning before retiring to the Club House or near pub for a few drinks.

To have taken 5 hours would have killed the day and game, but then I am talking of courses in the UK. I must admit that most of the time we selected the lesser known courses, for the most part it proved to be a good idea. Plus being able to take in 36, gives more to the golfer. 

I do miss those happy days – all day golf, many pints in the pub afterwards and that great welcome when I rolled in after midnight ‘what time do you call this – your meal is in the (garbage) bin’ from the love of my life – Oh Happy Days.   The only 5 hour games I was ever allowed usually took place with my wife to make up for my hours on the course & in the pub.
I remember I was quite fit in those days, can’t understand why as I only played golf! 

PS All done without any cart or electronic artificial aids. 

Melvyn, it can still be done!  At Muirfield a year ago, we played fourball in the morning at 9 and finished the foursome after lunch at about 5.  There was time in between to be overserved with beer, wine and kummel. 

Oh yes, caddies in the a.m., carried in the p.m.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Tom

I am surprised by you comments. I was not going to make any comments about the American game; I was just explaining how I played some 20 years ago and how I enjoyed all day golf playing 36 holes. Nothing More - Nothing Else.

I understand that some of your courses are designed to suite your style of living, that’s your choice or to be correct the developers choice.

‘So Melyvn, I am not sure how far you were taking it in your post, but well... bear all this in mind in case you were going to make sweeping generalizations about UK golfers v. US, and how long the game SHOULD take’.

What’s all this crap, you play what the hell you want and call it what you want. But don’t dare try and put words into my mouth. You have no right.

You have a problem with having to play 5 -6 hours, then take it up with the developer and his designer, not me – I’m not responsible - you are because you accept these course.

You can’t even spell my name correctly - thanks

[Mike Bowline]

A key of the original post was the question:

Do these 5 hour rounds contribute to the decline of golf?

Time after time, people I know who love golf complain about the time component involved. Yes, also the escalating green fees, but the pace of play is getting under more and more peoples' skins.

I believe the 5-6 hour rounds are contributing to the decline of rounds played. I sure know that my choice of where and when to play is definitely influenced by the expected pace of play. But I am a golf NUT. Poeple who know no better are just saying to heck with it and not playing as much.

[Tom Huckaby]

Melvyn:

My post was not meant to be either adversarial or accusatory.  My humble apologies that it came out that way, as well as for the typo in spelling your name.

So I misread you.  Just bear with me, as others have made this general point many times in here (UK golfers are fast, US golfers are slow) and as I read your post and knowing who you are and where you live, well... I jumped to the wrong conclusions.

Note I also did not put words in your mouth, though.  I conjectured as to IF this is where you were going.  I meant to be humble and give you the benefit of the doubt.

In any case, we are not as far off on this as it might seem.  I don't exactly enjoy slow golf unless going slow is my own choice (which it rarely is, either way). 

All the best, and with great respect,

Tom Huckaby

[Melvyn Morrow]

Good for you Bill

It makes the day.

Glad you enjoyed yourself - that's what its about

[Jeff Spittel]

It sounds like you had some delightful imagery to revisit while waiting for the group in front of you. That would take me to my happy place no matter how long the round lasted.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Pete Pittock,
 
         It is ironic that after all the bitching and moaning about slow play, some of the slowest rounds I've ever played have been at GCA gatherings. 

[John Foley]

Craig,

I remember KP I and wishing at the turn for a 5 hr round, didn't happen!!

[Tom Huckaby]

I too have played slow rounds at GCA gatherings.

But I've also played very very fast with GCAers.

It all depends on who else is on the course, and what is the intent of the round.

I would speculate that all rounds at the upcoming TKP will go quite slow - because each will be played on crowded weekend courses, and on top of that the intent won't be to rush around, but rather to BS with friends old and new, take some pictures, have a good time.

But we do play Pajaro Fri morning at 9am, two groups of GCAers.  Oh, some of the intent will still be there - we won't try to go fast, that's for sure.  But I'd also be shocked if there are many groups in front of us.  And knowing that course, well... even not trying to go fast, if we don't have the first group in the bar on their 2nd beer by 1pm, I will be quite surprised.... and then I will believe this "GCA gatherings go slow" theory.

So we shall see.  I've been to a lot of these.

 TH

ps to John - which KP?  I bet I can explain each instance with something other than our slow play being the cause.

[John Foley]

Tom,

KP I @ Barona. Yes - Sat afternoon tee times, but that was not the only reason

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

KP I @ Barona. Yes - Sat afternoon tee times, but that was not the only reason

Ah yes, the most-cited example.
That course was jam-packed that day, and we weren't exactly trying to go fast.

A better example is the next morning, where we were pretty much first off the tee.  I was in one of the first groups and we played in 3.5 hours.  It was you slowpokes behind us who took 5 hours that day.  That was pretty inexcusable.... hangovers be damned!

I do still believe that we go as fast as we want to and/or allowed to, in any case. 

TH

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