[Jed Peters]

Jed:  you're a way better player than I am - I find 16 to be as much about the tee shot as anything else.  If a 230 yard shot to a hogback sloping off both sides with hazard left and OB right means a simple bunt 4wood, then great, the hole is all about the green for you.  I can assure you it is not such for me, and dare I say anyone I've ever played with there.  But in any case, you are right that if one succeeds in the tee shot, one does have a shortish iron in - but it still plays up hill, and particularly to a back pin - which is really all they can use if the green speed is over 9 - it plays at least 1.5-2 clubs longer than the listed distance to the middle.  So I can tell you the shortest effective shot I've ever had into that green is 140 playing more like 160, which is a hard 7 iron for me.  So in the end, no, I don't think that green requires any sort of the tricking up you are alluding too because it plays easy and short, as it plays neither of those things for me... and again, dare I say anyone I've ever played the golf hole with!   Nope, the green is a fantastic one that would be incredible at 8-9, but is quite stupid and useless at 10-11 and over.

TH

Tom:

I've only played the hole 4 times, and it's played different according to the conditions.

3 times I've played it I've hit a little draw driver and had 8 iron to a back pin (2x) and wedge to that little middle pin at the tournament.  This includes one time playing it in winter as well.

One other time I played it (in winter) I hit 4 wood (good) and had 7 iron to a back pin.

I've only parred the hole once, for what it's worth!

Playing with college kids in that last tourney, they both hit 3 wood, wedge into the green for easy 3 putt bogies. (LOL)

My dad, who's a 9 handicap, hit driver, 8 iron the last time he played there--the first time he pushed his drive and had to punch out from near the houses.

He three putted for bogie as well, and he's a pretty good putter.

I still contend it's all about the shot into the green and the putt.

But then again, that tee shot is fun (but it sets up for my over the top pull hook)....

Here's a video of me hitting the tee shot:

http://web.mac.com/jedpeters/Site/Movies/Pages/Golf_Movies.html#17

And me hitting the 8 iron to the back right pin (pushed the shot and missed pin-high right in the rough):

http://web.mac.com/jedpeters/Site/Movies/Pages/Golf_Movies.html#18

[Tom Huckaby]

Cool pictures (I could only get them to work as stills).

But none of that changes my opinion.

If a tee shot with a humbacked fairway, hazard left, OB right, is meaningless, well... you ought to be playing in Georgia right now, not talking to me.

 

TH

[Jason Mandel]

The "Crabcake" #17 at Longshadow 

[TEPaul]

I've seen the pin in the front right of #16 Merion and if they aren't putting it there now they should slow those greens down just enough to put it there sometimes. That could be an excellent example of the "Steve Curry Green Speed Barometer", perhaps the sanest green speed formula ever known.

[Jim Nugent]

Tony and everyone else:  how about flipping Tony's original question.  Cool, great, fantastic greens with the MOST amount of pinnable area?

[Tim Nugent]

Jim, that's too easy - it's called St. Andrews.

[Forrest Richardson]

Unless the greens are huge, I think that 50% being pin-able is a decent goal.

Tim: I agree that The Old Course is a poster child for the 180° question — when you take a look at percentage of pin-able areas there it is a very high percentage (on most greens).

We used the 50-70% rule-of-thumb at Peacock Gap. This has caused all sorts of conversation, especially among the  professional staff. They feel a green "should be mostly pin-able," which I disagree with wholeheartedly.

[jim_lewis]

#14 at Lookout Montain, but it proably does not qualify as great. Not only is the pinnable area small, but any shot that does not stop in that area will roll back down the fairway a little like #9 at ANGC except more severe.

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