Jack Fleming

[Jon Spaulding]

I saw this quote on another thread............."Jack Fleming, another one of AM's assistants, while capable, never did anything of note either on his own."

Not sure if this warrants a thread, but I must disagree - he did some good work; certainly "of note" ......which I would recommend to anyone looking to dig beneath the surface in Northern CA. My pictures and detailed memories on some of these courses are a bit lacking, so if anyone has any postables they would be appreciated, as well as any comments.

Sharon Heights - excellent; best course on the peninsula south of Cal Club (that I have played)
Gleneagles - fairly discussed here on GCA by the locals. I love it and never got mugged there
Salinas - interesting topography/strategic holes/tiny greens
Turlock - tiny, interesting greens/some very good holes
Almaden - very solid
Manteca & Mather - both decent munis

I have not played Dry Creek Ranch but it seems to be highly thought of.

[Mike Benham]

I would put Stanford and the renovated Peninsula ahead of Sharon Heights.

[Jon Spaulding]

Agreed on Stanford; total brain fart by me on that one.  Disagree on Peninsula, but only slightly.

How do you feel about JF's better work? Would you agree that it's worth a look once one get's past the big names?

[Mike Benham]

Here is the list of Jack Fleming courses that I found, with the ones bolded as have played:

    * Adam Springs Golf Course - Semi-Private in Cobb
    * Almaden Golf & Country Club - Private in San Jose
    * Boulder Creek Golf & Country Club - Resort in Boulder Creek
    * Cypress Golf Course - Public in Colma
    * Dry Creek Ranch Golf Course - Public in Galt
    * Fleming at Harding Park Golf Course - Public in San Francisco
    * Gleneagles Golf Club - Public in San Francisco
    * Golden Gate Park Golf Course - Public in San Francisco
    * Mace Meadow Golf & Country Club - Semi-Private in Pioneer
    * Manteca Park Golf Course - Public in Manteca
    * Mather Golf Course - Public in Mather
    * Meadowood Resort Hotel - Private in Saint Helena
    * Mount Saint Helena Golf Course - Public in Calistoga
    * Napa Golf Course at Kennedy Park in Napa
    * Pruneridge Golf Course - Public in Santa Clara
    * Roseville Rolling Greens Golf Course - Public in Roseville
    * Salinas Golf & Country Club - Private in Salinas
    * Santa Rosa Golf & Country Club - Private in Santa Rosa
    * Sharon Heights Golf & Country Club - Private in Menlo Park
    * Sierra View Country Club - Private in Roseville
    * Spring Creek Golf Course & Country Club - Private in Ripon
    * Swenson Golf at Swenson Park Golf Course - Public in Stockton
    * Turlock Golf & Country Club - Private in Turlock
    * West at Blue Rock Springs Golf Course - Public in Vallejo

Overall, a pretty pedestrian list of courses.  I think I would put Salinas CC at the top of the list that I have played.  SHGCC and AGCC are average courses encumbered by houses.

[Joel_Stewart]

I would put Stanford and the renovated Peninsula ahead of Sharon Heights.

Mike:

I guess even this close to home I need to learn some things.  What was Flemings role at Stanford?

[Padraig Dooley]

Jack grew up in Tuam which is not too far from Galway, moved to Dublin in his late teens and took some classes in landscape gardening and civil engineering. He emigrated to England not so long afterwards got a job with the two MacKenzie brothers.

They must have been impressed with him and gave him further training and made him supervisor of their construction crew. He came back to Ireland in 1924 to work mainly on my course Cork and a small bit of work on two other courses Muskerry and Youghal.

Alister came back from the US, just as Jack was finishing in Cork, with several contracts for new designs and invited Jack and any of the crew back to the States with him. Off to America they went and became part of Robert Hunter's American Golf Course Construction Company.

According to the club's history, when asked late on in life about the job at Cork, he remarked that sheep posed a lot of problems for the club while he was there.

He was obviously very good at implementing MacKenzie's ideas, the difference between his work and later work on the course is very noticeable.

[John Keenan]

I have played Fleming, Gleneagles and Golden Gate park. I would note that Fleming and Gleneagles are both very nice 9 hole courses.

[Stan Dodd]

The Napa course is not bad. There are some really good holes.  As it is muni, conditioning is always hit or miss.

[David Stamm]

In my defense, this statement that Jon quotes of mine was not meant to be disparaging of  Fleming in any way, but rather to show that while AM had some very good talent to carry out construction on his courses, he (AM) was still the captain of the ship. Kennedy Park looks like it is fun and I plan on playing it the next time I go up wine tasting up there in Napa, but from the cheap seats, I just didn't see anything that was unique in photo's I've seen, that's all. JS and   GACers from No Cal would certainly know better than I since they've played a few of JF's, but I have a feeling I'm not that far off the mark with my comment.

[Tim Leahy]

I learned to play on Mather as a military course and have probably played close to 300 rounds on the course. When you consider what Flemming had to work with, a tree less open field and how it has grown in through the years, I would say he did a great job of vision to the future, building a parkland course out of nothing. The same holds with many of his other layouts like Drycreek, Sierra View, Gleneagles and Napa. While not spectacular, they provide a lot of interesting holes that allow the golfer to play them over and over without getting bored.

[Mike Benham]

I guess even this close to home I need to learn some things.  What was Flemings role at Stanford?

No connection whatsoever, I was commented on Jon's ranking of the courses on the peninsula ...

[Kevin_Reilly]

I've played Adams Springs (Cobb Mountain), and it is unremarkable.  Just a garden-variety 9-hole course.