Did Other GA gca's use Ross style chipping areas?

[wsmorrison]

Mark,

You did not understand my point or carefully consider the examples I provided.  One should not interpret "grassy hollows" as chipping areas.  I'm surprised you thought I did.  Flynn's use of grassy hollows were kept as rough.  I explained this when I showed the Cascades drawing and the Rolling Green drawing that shows the tufts in the hollow exactly as shown flanking the fairways.  Where there are no tufts, where the term grassy hollow is not used in the drawing and when rough is not indicated in the construction instructions, one can conclude in the drawings such as posted and seen in the photos provided that fairways were wrapped around or extended along one side of greens.

As for Lehigh, go back and look at the drawings.  Seven holes were depicted as having grassy hollows (3,5,7,8,15,17 and 18).  Two holes were indicated to have fairway height around the greens.  The 10th along the left side and all the way around the 11th.  Unfortunately, the 1938 aerial photographs I've seen are not helpful in drawing a conclusion as to how they were maintained.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Wayne,

I agree, and agree with Kelly that  chipping areas is the wrong term to convey the rumples of ground attributed to Ross that enhanced, well, I guess you still have to call it chipping, or at least recovery shots.  What term did HWH use again?

I don't see hollows and humps depicted on those Flynn plans.  For that matter, I don't recall straight edges on any GA work, but neither do I recall a lot of warbled, as opposed to long flowing slopes, in the work of Mac, Flynn, etc. I will defer to the experts, however, since most of my GA viewing was years ago and not repeated play. I may have missed them.

[Mark_Fine]

Wayne,
Agreed, we are on the same page.  We put a "chipping area" on #5    Flynn called for a grassy hollow. 
Mark

[Bill Brightly]

This may be a dumb question, but was there even enough knowledge about turfgrasses in the early 20th century to even conceive of a "chipping area"?

I get the impression that in parkland courses, there was "fairway" from treeline to tree line. And that it wasn't until irrigation systems that the concept of rough really developed. Is this true?

[wsmorrison]

Wayne,
Agreed, we are on the same page.  We put a "chipping area" on #5    Flynn called for a grassy hollow. 
Mark

Was Mike Malone seen wandering the course before the short grass area on #5 was put in?  Maybe he's the Mikey Appleseed of chipping areas 

[Sean_A]

I too was wondering about these hollows.  Unless they were built on well draining soil wouldn't they be a bit mucky at least some of the time if the grass were kept at fairway height?  I would also raise the question of what fairway height was back then.  Today, we get the option of putting, wedge or bump n' run.  I wonder if the length of fairway grass in these instances (where recovery is up to a raised green) was not really suitable for putting.  Lastly, I look at those Flynn drawings (and if I understand them correctly), they seem to encourage a bold approach where going long looks to often be better than short.  Of course, it depends on how steep that terrain is!

Ciao 

[mike_malone]

 I was certainly aware of Flynn's design for #1 at Rolling Green. It appears that it was never implemented and it is unlikely it ever will be. When one analyzes this specific course there are very few places where these fairways can be placed around the front of the greens.  (Certainly, #7 should have this feature, as designed.) Therefore , it makes sense to place one on this hole to create some variety and interest around the green and ,besides , Flynn was thinking of something different than just a regular fairway approach. After all, it is just about grass height.

   Now,  if I had proposed a bunker on one of the holes at Rolling Green that never had one designed, built, or added in the early years of the course then I would expect Wayne to  jump all over me.

[wsmorrison]

"Now,  if I had proposed a bunker on one of the holes at Rolling Green that never had one designed, built, or added in the early years of the course then I would expect Wayne to  jump all over me."

Not if it improved the hole, Mike.  Then I would applaud you.  How things going?  Any chance of getting together this season?  I'd offer a home and home, but I don't think you'd take me up on it.  I'm going to try and collect the foursome this Spring.  Odds are I'll be seeing you if they agree.

[mike_malone]

    Wayne,

    You are welcome any time to accompany me at Rolling Green.

[wsmorrison]

Thanks, Mike.  You are welcome to accompany me at my club...that is if you can stomach it      Maybe we'll just go out to the West Course since I believe you do like that one, right?

 

[mike_malone]

 I see this issue as one of letting the ball roll instead of stopping it with the type of high rough we seem to have around greens these days. I'm glad that Flynn embraced the concept in his designs.