[Mike Hendren]

Did MacKenzie routinely incorporate narrow "tongues" at the front of his greens?  Those at nos. 4,6,7,9, and 18 at Augusta National Golf Club are long gone, but the 5th at Pasatiempo remains an excellent example.

Surely they were not pinnable? 

Were they intended to provide a run-up avenue for the lesser talent?

Merely an outlet for artistic flair?

If anyone can scan and post photographs from Stan Byrdy's book, please, please, pretty please do so.  Thanks.

Bogey

[Pete Lavallee]

Mike,

Although the front tonge on the 5th at Pasa might not be pinnable due to slope the back tonge at #6 surely is, as well as the two back tonges on the 13th green. If they are useable you must admit that they make for great "Sunday pin placements".

[Tom Huckaby]

Great point, Pete.  At Pasa, the renovations completed over the last few years have also opened up a few other small areas, some of which might not be called "tongues" per se, but nearly all of which are pinnable.  I'm thinking the way back and way front right of 1, way back right of 4, front right of 9, several parts of 10, very front portion of 16, not to mention the evil back portion of 17.  Seems to me the good Doctor did intend these to be pinnable without a doubt.  Heck, at the speeds he likely contemplated the greens to be kept at, even that evil front tongue on 5 might be pinnable!

So I do see these as having a functional purpose as well, Mike.  Oh sure, they are a bit of artistic flair... but that is surely not the extent of their purpose.

TH

[Mike Hendren]

Pete,

I was thinking of a back, right tongue on a par five at Pasa.  Thought it was the 13th but I'm betting it was the 6th.  As I recall it was pinned during KPII and sloped away to the rear.  I thought it a little odd and perhaps an unfortunate later alteration until I saw the same element in Byrdy's Augusta  book.

Props to you and Huck.  Hope to see you soon.

Mike

[Tom Huckaby]

Mike - that could describe either 6 or 13 as they are now.  However at KPII, the one on 6 was not putting surface, at least not nearly as much - it's a product of the recent restoration.  So my bet is you are thinking more of 13.

In any case they both classify as tongues pretty much, and are both pinnable, even at today's fast green speeds.

TH

ps - hope to see you soon too - are you coming to TKP?  If so, Fri is my only day for that sadly... so hope to see you either at one of the Friday rounds planned or Fri night dinner!

[Edwin Roald]

Michael,

Doesn't the 15th at Cypress Point have one as well? Would that one fit your description?

[David Schofield]

Its from an entirely different era, but the back right "tongue" on Hole #12 of Whistling Straits fits the mold of a "barely pinnable" area that is used for championships (only, I hope). 

http://www.destinationkohler.com/golf/ws/straits_detail.html

[CJ Carder]

Would the little sliver on the left side of green on #3 at ANGC count?

[Jeff_Brauer]

It seems to me that it was a pet feature of Mac and most courses had at least one.  ANGC got several in its design. I speculate that it was a way to challenge approach shots in lieu of greater bunkering, but could be wrong.

There are perhaps a few too many for my taste and I would bet for the tastes of early Masters competitors, leading to their removal.

[TEPaul]

I think greenspace that is not intended to be pinnable but is strategically useable just may be one of the most imaginative aspects in golf architecture in any era. The only problem is that the playability of some of it becomes so altered by vastly increased green speed. In reality for it to play the way it once did or was intended to one needs a lot more of this kind of green space or the ball won't stop where it once did.

[Jon Wiggett]

I don't think that he used them early in his career as I can not recall any on his courses in the north east of England. He did however use false fronts alot.

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