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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2008, 05:51:24 AM »
What's the best Residential development golf course Matt?


Well, St. George's Hill in Surrey was the first.... And a mighty fine course it is too...

Padraig Dooley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2008, 06:17:47 AM »
The root of all evil is... lack of knowledge, or an inability to use the knowledge one possesses.
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2008, 11:06:18 AM »
Too much water - both as a pretty hazard and in keeping the fairways and greens too soft.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2008, 11:25:54 AM »
My homage to Adam Clayman ("Ego", "Sophistication")....

Pride.



THIS IS THE ANSWER!

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2008, 11:38:48 AM »
Concern that the quality of a shot and its outcomes be predictable and proportional.

Bob
« Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 12:30:05 PM by BCrosby »

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2008, 12:15:54 PM »
stroke play
golf carts
This sounds pretty close to me.

TEPaul

Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2008, 12:40:16 PM »
"What is the root of all evil in golf course architecture? In golf in general?"

An improper understanding of the concept of fairness as it should uniquely apply to golf and architecture.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2008, 01:35:27 PM »
The golf bag.

One could only carry three or four clubs under the arm, which:

Made the game more affordable
Forced people to become more proficient
Accelerated pace of play with fewer clubs to select from
Forced the player to confront the architecture
Precluded the need for golf carts

Quote
The LACK of money is the root of all evil.
-Reverend Ike
« Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 01:38:46 PM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2008, 02:54:52 PM »

television


Color TV ... if we were still watching the Master's in black and white, would an overly green golf courses be a requirement?
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2008, 05:21:46 PM »
The intersection of ignorance and arrogance.

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2008, 05:49:58 PM »
I've seen a couple of episodes of the Comedy Central show with Lewis Black - staged, semi-funny debates about whether, for example, weed or beer is the "root of all evil."

What is the root of all evil in golf course architecture?

In golf in general?

The Stimpmeter and Trump Waterfalls
Dave

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2008, 07:17:27 PM »
The intersection of ignorance and arrogance.

I agree.  I'll state it as "a poor understanding of the game of golf."

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2008, 10:45:38 PM »
The intersection of ignorance and arrogance.

Lou

Which city is that street corner in?  ;)

James B

ps  I would have said Pride, or EGO, or perhaps 'napoleonism', ie small man syndrome.  So many of us like to think that we are bigger than we really are, in so many ways.
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2008, 10:56:41 PM »
Who among us has more pride, ego and arrogance than C. B. Macdonald?  (I could name a few but it's really intended as a hypothetical question.)

I ask because I don't understand the number one answer on this thread in the context of golf course architecture.  Heck, everybody knows that there are a few outstanding architects working today whose heads are so big they have to go outside to turn around. 

I also tire of the popularity of Augusta National Golf Club as the architectural boogyman.  What the hell are they supposed to do with all that TV money - bury it in Maxwell House Coffee cans under Amen Corner?

Quote
It's not easy being green.
-Kermit The Frog
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2008, 09:18:06 AM »
I was laughing all the way down waiting to find Rees and the USGA taking the architecture out of the open courses. Actually that show is not up to L Blacks standards though.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2008, 09:47:33 AM »
I was laughing all the way down waiting to find Rees and the USGA taking the architecture out of the open courses. Actually that show is not up to L Blacks standards though.

Tiger -

I like your phrase "taking the architecture out of the open courses."

Exactly so.

Bob

Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2008, 10:12:27 AM »
Lou

The intersection of ignorance and arrogance – James it's not in a city, I have never been there, but I have been told from reliable sources that it
is to be found on every course with a cart track!

Maybe something to do with the Evils of those ‘No Walking Policy’.

How many IIA’s (intersection of ignorance and arrogance) have you come across in your carting experience?


Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2008, 10:18:02 AM »
Who among us has more pride, ego and arrogance than C. B. Macdonald?  (I could name a few but it's really intended as a hypothetical question.)

Michael, excellent point, and to add to that - Not here, but Dr. MacKenzie comes to mind.

And those who think that arrogance and ego are negatives in the creative process have no understanding of the process. Arrogance and ego are both other words for self belief seen from the wrong angle. Show me a creator with no self belief and I don't need to see his work...

Sure, arrogance and ego have no place at the dinner table, and neither Macs ever seemed to figure this out, but in the creative process they are essential.

Peter Pallotta

Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2008, 10:38:39 AM »
You may be right, Lloyd. But I don’t think pride is synonymous with ego or arrogance, at least not necessarily so.  And I know that it’s not synonymous with self belief. 

Pride seems to me to result from a need or compulsion to compare and to prove better than, and to have this superiority publicly recognized; while self belief seems satisfied to keep its own counsel and let the chips fall where they may. 

It is my guess that the latter approach serves golf and golfers and golf course architecture better, especially in the long run.
 
Peter
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 10:58:18 AM by Peter Pallotta »

Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2008, 10:45:11 AM »
Lloyd

“And those who think that arrogance and ego are negatives in the creative process have no understanding of the process. Arrogance and ego are both other words for self belief seen from the wrong angle. Show me a creator with no self belief and I don't need to see his work...”

Sorry, Lloyd, there have been many that have not been arrogant or egotistic that have achieved greatness in their own life time, so can’t totally agree with you.

“Sure arrogance and ego have no place at the dinner table, and neither Macs ever seemed to figure this out, but in the creative process they are essential”.

Again I disagree and refer you to my above comment.

Those that are, are more than happy to let the rest of us know how brilliant (they think) they are. But being self-opinionated or full of self-importance is no recommendation. My first reaction is what is being hidden.

I don’t think a blanket statement if right.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2008, 11:07:13 AM »
I think (in the context of this conversation) EGO, ARROGANCE and SELF-BELIEF can be viewed as three circles that partially overlap each other. There are some areas in which they are synonymous and plenty which they are not...

Carl Rogers

Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2008, 11:36:09 AM »
Projects have to make a return on the investment.  Clubs need to pay personnel.  Facilities always require continued equipment, maintenance and investment. 

I think the key to the problem posed by this thread is the need as defined by some to relentlessly chase down the last dollar and the unacceptable compromises that ensue.  Compromises that adversely effect the core golfer who just wants to play or watch or just experience the game ... yes we are all consumers.

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2008, 01:00:00 PM »
You may be right, Lloyd. But I don’t think pride is synonymous with ego or arrogance, at least not necessarily so.  And I know that it’s not synonymous with self belief. 

Pride seems to me to result from a need or compulsion to compare and to prove better than, and to have this superiority publicly recognized; while self belief seems satisfied to keep its own counsel and let the chips fall where they may. 

It is my guess that the latter approach serves golf and golfers and golf course architecture better, especially in the long run.
 
Peter


Peter

You will note that I don't mention pride. I'm not a Christian but I agree that it is a bad thing.

conceit |kənˈsēt|
noun
1 excessive pride in oneself : he was puffed up with conceit. See notes at egotism, pride .



Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2008, 02:23:38 PM »
"Which city is that street corner in?" James B

James,

What came immediately to mind when I pulled this thread up was not a Mapquest grid, but a picture of two circles, arrogance and ignorance, which sometimes intersect or overlap, but not necessarily so.  Neither represent virtous qualities, but are tolerable when mutually exclusive.  However, where they do intersect (the shaded area of a Venn diagram), the stuff starts hitting the fan.  Add a third circle for power or authority to compel, and where these three come together is where "the root of all evil" finds its sustenance.

I believe it was Donald Trump who once said something to the effect "show me a man with no ego and I'll show you a loser".  Everyone has an ego, and, hopefully, we all take pride in what we do well.  I agree entirely with Lloyd Cole, but would extend his comments well beyond creative activities.  Without pride and self-confidence, little of value would get accomplished.

Mr. Trump is often portrayed as the epitome of arrogance and self-promotion.  He is also anything but ignorant.  I can learn from boastfull, self-absorbed people who have substance, and even enjoy their company on a limited basis.  The man clearly creates value and, I suspect, is a major contributor to worthwhile charitable causes.

For me at least, the real obnoxious guy is the one "who knows not and knows not that he knows not".  As the proverb say, he should be shunned or avoided.  With the internet, this chap now has an open forum and no shortage of company.


             
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 04:53:38 PM by Lou_Duran »

Doug Ralston

Re: The Root of All Evil
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2008, 03:46:20 PM »
My homage to Adam Clayman ("Ego", "Sophistication")....

Pride.



THIS IS THE ANSWER!

Completely agree.  My answer was to be "ego" but Peter beat me to it.

To this I agree, though I refine it to one aspect of ego/pride that encompasses ALL evil, IMHO. That is self-deception. I have never seen anything humans have done which I would classify as evil, that did not spawn from their convenient personal beliefs. From Charlie Manson's maniacal joy at his power over his 'children', to Adolf's truly certain feeling of being the true protector of the superior Aryan race [aka megalamania]. People have a natural need to believe they are somehow at the top [of whatever], and that others who are different are less.

Enough lecture. Self-deception is the true and, IMHO, only root of evil.

Doug

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