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Adam Lawrence

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Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be: 2014-15 Winter Tour
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2015, 09:21:09 AM »
I'm not convinced 16 at Notts is a great candidate for turning into a drivable par four. Partly, I love the tee shot as it is - it's a really nice drive and pitch hole - and secondly, I don't think too many people would want to hit driver given the fronting bunker. I suppose you could cut the grass on the high side and give people a chance to run it in from there, but otherwise you'd surely lay up unless the tee went a mile forward?
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Sean_A

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Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be: 2014-15 Winter Tour
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2015, 09:58:24 AM »
Adam

I agree with you.  The rough right and how the fairway moves around it is one of the keys to the hole because it doesn't take a huge drive to go thru the fairway left...which makes guys want to cheat a bit up the right and challenge the bunker.  Plus, only big hitters could reach that green because it would be all carry unless the front bunker was altered.  On the other hand, it would be next to impossible to stay below the hole when driving the green...and in keen conditions there would be a ton of disappointing 3 putts. 

Boony

The daily tees was plenty of golf last weekend...provided for a load of hybrid play. 

Ciao   
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be: 2014-15 Winter Tour
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2015, 01:11:49 PM »
Adam,

You are probably right, but risky as it might be the very top / longest players can go for the green from the current tees. During the Boys Championship a couple of years ago, some players went for it from the back tee. When they moved the tee forwards to the ladies tee for the quarter finals I think pretty much all of them went for it but struggled as they weren't hitting drives full on.

Having the yellow, white and blue all within 20 yards or so of each other doesn't provide much variety. A larger tee down by the ladies, maybe even if only for the yellow tees, would mean the occasional venture down there for longer hitters may tempt people to go for it? Still a great pitch in for anyone going down the middle, but interesting risk and reward potential for anyone brave (stupid) enough to try  ;D Might need the very right side of the fronting bunker filling in to give more chance of running a shot in, but anything pulled or short would end up in the bunker.

To be honest things are just fine, but its an interesting hypothetical debate...

Cheers,

James
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 01:13:31 PM by James Boon »
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

ward peyronnin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be: 2014-15 Winter Tour
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2015, 01:50:07 PM »

The course really looks good JB; i must say it has vaulted into a top five or ten I want to see. So disappointed that Buda fell just a bit too early for a Walker Cup walkaround; but maybe I can squeeze a drive over the Midlands with a mate.

Am I picking up mixed references to short par fours?  A drivable two shotter and a drive and pitch version? I am curious to hear the distinction between these two and why if Notts has the latter this disqualifies it for variety?
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be: 2014-15 Winter Tour
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2015, 03:34:47 PM »
Ward,

If I can get my diary to work with yours, you are more than welcome!

The 16th isn't really a drive able par 4. The very best / longest might give it a go, but it's out of the question for everybody else. This is because rather than having a set of tees that make the hole gradually shorter, they are all very close together at the top of a hill, which means the 350odd yards drive and pitch are almost the same for everyone, hence the 300yard cutting of the corner is achievable by the best but madness for the rest.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be: 2014-15 Winter Tour
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2015, 04:17:58 PM »
James

16 is quite a severe dogleg isn't it? Not 90 degrees but at least 45 degrees. IIRC. Position the tee-shot then play a second.  A lesser version of CPC 8.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2015, 04:56:06 AM »
I think Buda went very well and Boony is to be commended on his efforts.  It was fine to see Notts in the summer with some roll on the ball to mitigate the length of the course  :D   My opinion of the course has gone up...it has only taken 15 years!  I really enjoyed taking a good long look around these past few days.  Notts really is a marvelous property!  See the updated tour.

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 03:13:44 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2015, 01:47:01 PM »
This year's Buda was fantastic! Kudos to James for organizing such a fine event. The courses were spectacular... especially Notts.


Thanks, Sean, for updating the photo tour. My wife is pleased that my Royal Cinque Ports hose will be documented for posterity!


Very fine!


Mike
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 01:05:24 PM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2015, 03:14:40 PM »
I was going to say how sad I was to miss this year's Buda, but I'm not so sure now. It's hard to swing a golf club when you're rolling around on the grass pmsl!



Wow! Just gorgeous, Beau!

Love,
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2015, 03:16:28 PM »
 :o :o


Reminds me of Chappers' blazer!

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2015, 11:45:42 AM »
Sean,


Thanks for the updated tour! As you include a variety of photos from different visits at different times of the year, the changes in texture and colour really do highlight Hollinwell as a magnificent setting for golf (though I'm not sure Whitty's socks add much  8)  )


You mention the 14th deserving more accolades. I've a copy of an old cigarette card that includes the 14th at Notts as part o the inland perfect course, with words by Darwin...
[size=78%][/size]


Cheers,


James



2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Richard Fisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2015, 05:06:28 AM »
Following, gingerly, in the footsteps of BUDA, one of my oldest golfing chums and I just had a super East Midlands mini-break to Luffenham, Hollinwell and Coxmoor. On the drive up from Cambridge we played 18 at Luffenham (which I knew quite well) as a warm-up, and then 36 at Hollinwell and Coxmoor (both new to me), in gorgeous early autumn conditions (unlike the forecast semi-hurricane: had we cancelled in response to the 'severe weather warning' we would have been more than a tad irritated...). The whole venture worked at £42 per round, which for golf of this calibre was a very good deal indeed. I won't add to the extensive stream of laudatory comments on Hollinwell, other than to append this link to

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/hollin_well_annesley/

the former (and surprisingly extensive) Hollinwell Halt (a name now of course taken over by the admirably-positioned halfway-ish hut). Rightly or wrongly, we played off the yellow tees at Hollinwell, and the whites at Luffenham and Coxmoor: there was zero run in the morning dew, and this seemed the sensible thing to do. Coxmoor and Hollinwell are both SSS 73 when played from these tees, and we both thought that in that specific context Coxmoor was the tougher test: obviously, Hollinwell off the whites would have been an altogether bigger challenge, but for my friend (6 handicap) and me (14) it did seem pleasingly 'doable', and we both played to or slightly under handicap.

GCAers will be very pleased to hear, following Sean's comments on Coxmoor of a few years ago, that there has been a major programme of tree removal: one of the members we were chatting to said that the course was 'unrecognisable in parts' from even twelve months ago, especially around the 7th, 8th and 9th. That said, there is still some way to go, with some superfluous leylandii prime candidates for the saw. Obviously Coxmoor is ten times noisier and busier than Hollinwell, which shows in the overall conditioning. The entry to Hollinwell, and the sheer scale of the whole site, is unmatched in my experience of British golf inland, and seems more akin to those US courses like Ekwanok that I have only ever glimpsed in photographs. The welcome at both was warm and friendly.

The one east midlands disappointment was the clubhouse beer, which seemed prevalently Greene King and not very exciting. On this outing we couldn't sample Sherwood Forest, about the merits of which there seems some GCA disagreement, but for an unusual British golf trip, combining scenery, history (Robin Hood, Lord Byron etc), industrial archaeology, and really enjoyable and challenging inland golf at very reasonable rates, the East Midlands takes some beating.

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2015, 09:00:37 AM »
Richard,


Glad you enjoyed your trip to this part of the World.


Your points about the local beer are ones that I agree with. There are a number of smaller local breweries and I think the golf clubs should be embracing them. The Castle Rock brewery in Nottingham does an excellent pale ale called Harvest Pale that would go down very well in most golf clubs!


Thanks for the extra information on the old railways station. I was aware of some of this, but the extra detail and photos are very interesting, and I will add them to the club archive, thanks!


If you are ever this way again, please let me know and we can try and arrange a game.


Cheers,


James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2017, 11:08:45 AM »
Hard to believe its been nearly two years since the Notts Buda.  Lovely as ever is Notts!  See the updated tour.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.0.html

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 03:13:05 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tom Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2017, 03:02:33 PM »

The pound seats. I preferred the intensity of the cross bunker to the three new bunkers.





I like the use of the word intensity, it wouldn't have come to my mind but fits the bill perfectly. I agree, it's a shame the bunker has gone. It did need a tidy up and I assume they had maintenance issues, probably wash-outs that the new split bunkers will alleviate. Though sometimes abit of pain and work is worth the effort for a feature that makes such an impression as the old bunker did.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 03:04:20 PM by Tom Kelly »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #65 on: August 19, 2017, 01:18:01 PM »
Tom

Yes, I was told drainage and erosion issues were the reasons for the bunker split.  Though I agree with you that sometimes a bit of grief is worth it.  I would rather have seen the bunker visually enhanced rather than done away with.

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 02:30:55 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2017, 07:00:10 PM »
Sean,


Thanks for the updated tour.


If I could fathom out how to repost pics, I'd put up the old cigarette card of the 14th again, along with the original routing plan.


It goes without saying that anyone who fancies a game here is welcome to get in touch!


Cheers,


James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #67 on: February 24, 2020, 06:24:58 AM »
Boonie

I saw somewhere that the 5th has been very successfully transformed. Pix?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2020, 09:56:47 AM »
Boonie

I saw somewhere that the 5th has been very successfully transformed. Pix?

Ciao


Sean,


Yes, a large area of gorse and yorkshire fog grass has been removed and the area between tee and green is now a sandscrape. My best photos on miserable winter days dont do it justice, so I'll wait till things have bedded in a little more in the summer before posting photos, but in the mean time, this link is to one the head greenkeeper took on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/nottsgolfclub/status/1225025525695025153?s=20
[/size]
[/size]We hope to have these on 2 or 3 other holes, but this first one is very much an experiment to see how it works on a heathland course, as I'm only really aware of them on links courses up to now, unless you count Pandy at Ganton? If it doesnt quite work out then at least we've got rid of some dense gorse and thick grass which would then hopefully be replaced by finer grasses and heather coming in naturally?

[/size]Cheers,
[/size]
[/size]James
[/size]
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2020, 04:22:04 AM »
Boonie

I saw somewhere that the 5th has been very successfully transformed. Pix?

Ciao


Sean,


Yes, a large area of gorse and yorkshire fog grass has been removed and the area between tee and green is now a sandscrape. My best photos on miserable winter days dont do it justice, so I'll wait till things have bedded in a little more in the summer before posting photos, but in the mean time, this link is to one the head greenkeeper took on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/nottsgolfclub/status/1225025525695025153?s=20

We hope to have these on 2 or 3 other holes, but this first one is very much an experiment to see how it works on a heathland course, as I'm only really aware of them on links courses up to now, unless you count Pandy at Ganton? If it doesnt quite work out then at least we've got rid of some dense gorse and thick grass which would then hopefully be replaced by finer grasses and heather coming in naturally?

Cheers,

James


Sounds good Boonie. Which other holes are being considered for the treatment?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2022, 04:35:32 PM »
The Winter Tour stopped at Notts and I had a chance to take a look at some of the new work. The bunkering is slowly becoming more naturalised.  The are a few natural waste areas on the 5th. More importantly, I noticed a few trees and some gorse removed which improves the playability. All in all, a very enjoyable game of golf is to be had at Notts!  See the updated tour.
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.0.html

Richard, you will be pleased to know that Timmy Taylors is now behind the bar. A fine pint.

2021-22 Winter Tour Previous Stops

Royal Porthcawl
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45933.0.html

Seaton Carew New
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,70404.msg1693517.html#msg1693517

Cleeve Hill
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.0.html

Minch Old
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48765.75.html

Scheduled Tour Stops

Hunstanton
Brancaster
Muirfield
Goswick
Renaissance

Ciao
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 05:09:07 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be: 2021-22 Winter Tour
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2022, 10:20:16 AM »
Sean,


Thanks for the updated tour and its always good to be able to show you around my home course.


While playing we discussed the "Original" Willie Park Jnr routing from 1901, the "Old" routing and then the "New" routing which is pretty much as it is today. For anyone else interested here is a link to a thread regarding the history of the layouts, from a few years ago:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be: 2021-22 Winter Tour
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2022, 05:07:31 PM »
Thank you James. Very enjoyable.
Atb

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be: 2021-22 Winter Tour
« Reply #73 on: March 22, 2022, 04:30:07 AM »
Sean,


Thanks for the updated tour and its always good to be able to show you around my home course.


While playing we discussed the "Original" Willie Park Jnr routing from 1901, the "Old" routing and then the "New" routing which is pretty much as it is today. For anyone else interested here is a link to a thread regarding the history of the layouts, from a few years ago:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68410.0.html

Cheers,

James

Are there going to be more waste areas and if so, where? I know some on here push back against this kind of thing, but I am sold. I like how the 5th was transformed. We did discuss the idea of a waste area on the 9th.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To Be Or NOTTS To Be: 2021-22 Winter Tour
« Reply #74 on: March 22, 2022, 10:11:20 AM »
Sean,


The M&E Masterplan does suggest a few other areas where these sandscrapes could be introduced. In some cases this is where historically there were large cross bunkers, such as before the 15th fairway, while a few others proposed are more out of play.


However, its an emotive subject and the plan is that once we've had the one on the 5th for a few years, the membership will be asked about whether they will be happy to have the others in the masterplan implemented, before we actually do so.


Cheers,


James

2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell