News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
From cybergolf.com


Hershey Country Club's West Course to be Renovated
The West Course at Hershey Country Club (Pa.) will undergo a complete restoration renovation this fall. Designed by Maurice McCarthy and opened in 1930, the West Course remodel will be overseen by Lester George of Richmond, Va. The revitalized course is slated to reopen in spring 2010.
"We are excited to begin planning for what is the first complete renovation in the history of the West Course," said Ned Graff, Director of Golf at Hershey Country Club. "Our focus is to preserve and honor the legacy of the West Course. We want to be great caretakers of its legacy."
George has an outstanding track record of renovating older golf courses. Virtually each area of the West Course will be upgraded. The project involves modernizing drainage and irrigation systems, and elevating the soil and turfgrass quality to USGA standards. There will be a total redesign of four holes - Nos. 8 and 9 on the front and Nos. 16 and 18 on the back - as well as new bunkering on each hole.
"Preserving the personality of an established golf course is an integral aspect of our designs," said George, who conducted the restoration of the Old White Course at the Greenbrier. "The modernization of Hershey's West Course will result in improved playability and sustainability. I call it a 'resto-vation.' We will follow the footprint of Maurice McCarthy's best work and provide the qualities that were missing."
The West Course boasts considerable history. It hosted the PGA Championship in 1940, when Byron Nelson defeated Sam Snead 1-up in the finals of what then was a match-play event. The course has also hosted events on the PGA, Nationwide and LPGA Tours.
"This is a special project," George said. "It is important to restore Hershey Country Club to its past prominence as a staple of championship golf."
The Hershey Golf Collection features 63 holes of golf - the West and East courses at Hershey Country Club, the newly added Hershey Links (formerly Wren Dale Golf Club) and the historic Spring Creek Golf Course. During renovation of the West Course, all three of the other courses will be open for play.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 08:20:01 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hershey CC's historic West Course to be renovated by Lester George
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2008, 05:38:26 PM »
It ws once a Top 100 golf course by Golf Digest.   Its been passed by dozens of new courses (Fazio, Nicklaus etc) and probably by the equipment issue (becoming too short).  Will be interesting to see what Lester thinks?

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hershey CC's historic West Course to be renovated by Lester George
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2008, 10:55:38 PM »
Here is a description from http://www.hersheypa.com/accommodations/hershey_country_club/courses/west_course.php

"The West Course provides a bird's-eye view of the town, including play atop the hill on the front lawn of Milton Hershey's estate — High Point Mansion. This par-73 course has tree-lined fairways, lush greens, and challenging hazards; and has hosted several LPGA and PGA tournaments, including the 1940 PGA Championship and the LPGA’s Lady Keystone Open for almost 20 years. At 6,860 yards, the West Course has a rating of 72.6 and slope of 130. It was designed by Maurice McCarthy in 1930."
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hershey CC's historic West Course to be renovated by Lester George
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2008, 11:32:23 PM »
Has anyone played any of the courses in Hershey?
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hershey CC's historic West Course to be renovated by Lester George
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2008, 11:21:17 AM »
Guys,

The Hershey West Course is going to pretty much remain in it's original footprint while everything else will be upgraded to new.  I'll post some on it next week.  Cool project and we are proud to be involved.

Lester

Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hershey CC's historic West Course to be renovated by Lester George
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2008, 12:41:11 PM »
Has anyone played any of the courses in Hershey?

My Uncle-in-law is a member and I got to play the East course last year.  Didn't get a chance to play the West because they had an event going on that day.  I really enjoyed the East, FWIW.  Hopefully next time I go back to visit, the renovated West will be ready to play.  Great newish clubhouse they have there as well.

Kyle Harris

Re: Hershey CC's historic West Course to be renovated by Lester George
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2008, 07:55:03 PM »
I played the East Course in the 2000 USGA Junior Am Qualifier. I had a lot of fun on the course but don't remember too much. A good set of par 3s, and the opening stretch of the back nine had some great par 4s.

Mike Tanner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hershey CC's historic West Course to be renovated by Lester George
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 08:28:48 PM »
Lester,
If the work you do at Hershey's West Course follows the same tasteful approach that you took at Cavalier G&YC in Virginia Beach, then the results should be well received.
Mike Tanner
Life's too short to waste on bad golf courses or bad wine.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hershey CC's historic West Course to be renovated by Lester George
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2008, 01:23:49 AM »
It has been over twenty years since I played Hershey West.  It was a little rough around the edges but it has some super beautiful trees.  I enjoyed the course.
Good luck Lester, I think you have a good product to start with.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tommy,

Thanks,  probably going to remove a lot of trees, but I plan to keep the important ones and the specimens.  Hershey is starving for both light and air, we do need to remedy that.

Lester

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Lester,

how come you didn't call it a "reno-ration?" Or a "de-modernification?"

Or just call it simple a "retro-cation?" That would have clarified things more.

Mike_Cirba

Lester,

As one who has previously decried the bastardization of the word "restoration" to cover a gamut of architectural and club changes that haven't the slightest thing in the world to do with returning a course to the architectural and physical constructs that have been lost due to the ravages of time, could you give us some greater insight into what work you have planned at Hershey that accounts for the "resto" part of your term, which seems possibly much too quickly negated by the "vated" portion?

For instance, what is it about holes 8 & 9, as well as 16 and 18 that have proven to be so egregiously unworkable or faulty as to require total redesign?  I'm not trying to be dubious in questioning, but could you tell us exactly what you mean when you state, "We will follow the footprint of Maurice McCarthy's best work and provide the qualities that were missing."

What was missing, in your opinion?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 09:48:57 PM by MPCirba »

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Brad,

Good stuff, but I think "restovation" cool as well.  You do have a way with words.

MPCirba,

I'm not sure where you are going with this, but I'll give you my thoughts.

Nothing "egregiously unworkable", just plain bad holes in the case of 8, 9, and 18, all of which were corrupted (from McCarthy originals) when the clubhouse moved in 1970.   They were redirected, renumbered and wedged in to make the new clubhouse location work.  In doing so, The 8th became a par 3 (originally a good par 4), and caused a traffic and safety issue (by crossing by 18 to get to 9).  The owners wanted this fixed.  The 16th was a  blind par 5 (the second blind par 5 in a series of three par fives out of four, 13, 15, 16) and created another safety hazard.  They wanted that fixed as well. 

You need to understand that sometimes these courses are not extraordinarily good and can be improved.  The original McCarthy course had both 9 and 18 as par threes.  Would you go back to that?  When I arrived there, there was really no interest in keeping the the McCarthy course, so, in a way, I am protecting as much of it as I can. 

The mission is to increase rounds, make it more user friendly for members and resort guests and prevent closure from flooding.  In doing that,  we now have to incorporate continuous paths, provide safety, improve turf, and elevate interest.  Its a little more complicated that just regrassing, which wouldn't work for the client. 

Sometimes the client needs outweigh the historical significance of the course.  If I were dealing with the rarest of gems, the situation would be different (as it was at the Greenbrier).  In this case however, the original course is GONE.  So, when I say I am trying to capture the best of whats left, I am.  You just have to take that as my answer.

Thanks for posting.

Lester     

Mike_Cirba

Lester,

Thank you very much for your answer, and I appreciate you taking my question in the truly curious spirit in which it was written.

I have no agenda except to say that I did enjoy many of the holes at Hershey West when I played there, but also recall a number of clunkers and as a psuedo-amateur-golf course historian.  I just try to be very careful when the word "restoration" is used because I've seen it used to put PR spin on projects that were anything but preservationist.

I wish you the best of luck in meeting your objectives at Hershey.   I'm not sure that you noticed a few months back but I did mention that your work over at Rock Manor looked to be very intruiging and a few of us are looking to have a get-together there shortly.   I'm also hoping to get down to see Kinloch before the year is out.

Thanks again...Mike

Matt_Ward

To pick up on a point made by a few others already ...

Hershey is in dire need of a makeover for no other reason than the overall layout (West) had become tired.

I concur with Lester George -- the original McCarthy layout was a good one but was it of such stature that it needed to be returned completely. Frankly, I don't think so but I am not the simon pure "restore at all cost" type that others on this site are.

One element mentioned by Lester is spot on. The drainage situation for the West needs to be improved DRAMATICALLY. Get a good rain for one day or one that sputters along several days and you can literally play from a small pond on any number of holes.

Hershey's real need is to highlight more of a future vision for golf in the 21st century and rely less upon the tie to Hogan's time when he was present from years ago. A new and improved Hershey need not concern itself with McCarthy but really demonstrate a capacity to want to return there beyond the long standing tie as America's chocolate capital.

p.s. I'd love to see the folks there put some TLC into the ole Parkview layout. I've always loved the snake creek hole -- used to be the closing hole but I believe is now the 3rd.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Just as a side note, Hershey CC has purchased WrenDale (Hurdzan/Fry) and renamed it Hershey Links and it will be part of the golf experience available to guests at the world famous Hershey Hotel.


"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
I seem to remember reading about Hershey West being a course that Hogan respected when there was a regular tour stop there.

I also remember bringing my daughter there when the LPGA played there, somewhere around 1980.  My daughter walked up to Nancy Lopez to say "Hi." Nancy spent about ten minutes talking to her. It is one of my fondest memories. 
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mike,

You are correct that the word restoration is loosely used.  That is why I emphasized the word "restovation" so I wouldn't mislead anyone in that press release.  You are also correct that there are some clunkers (most of which I discussed).  I look forward to you coming to Kinloch, let me know when it is on, I'll try to meet you there.  Also, Rock Manor is slated to open on April 25th.  It is still somewhat immature, but it looks pretty good considering.  Let me know when your group is going there as well.  I appreciate your posts, keep up the good stuff.

Matt,

Two of our main objectives at Hershey are drainage (therefore turf quality) and a return to market prominence.  Hershey has committed alot to this project.  They even purchased a replica of the 1940 PGA trophy (Nelson beat Snead in a playoff) to put in the new clubhouse.  The purchase of Wren Dale was a necessity because, unfortunately, they closed Parkview before I got there for parking expansion.  It made sense though because Wren Dale was unsustainable and was aparrently headed for bankruptcy. 

I thought Parkview had alot of potential, but its gone  sorry to say.

Thank for your posts.  Construction is slated to start in late September so if anyone wants to play the old, you need to get there.  I trust we have an exciting plan and I hope it will be well received.

Lester

Mike_Cirba

Lester,

Thanks again for the details.   I'll certainly contact you on both counts and I'll look forward to meeting you.

Best Regards,
Mike

Matt_Ward

Lester:

If memory serves Parkview previously hosted a Men's USGA Pub Linx Event. The original 18th hole at the course finished just below what, I believe, was the then clubhouse. The par-5 hole was truly unique and provided a marvelous array of different options with a creek that was artfully positioned.

Eventually the course was re-routed and that hole became the 3rd, if memory serves. What's interesting is that the original 1st hole -- started at the top of the crest of the hill next to the old clubhouse and was a tough long par-4 right off the bat.

Parkview wasn't long (about 6,200 yards) but it was an inexpensive option and McCarthy skillfully used a creek that meandered back and forth through a number of holes. It was a course that could provide excitement to a range of golf levels.

Regarding the former (still existing West Course) -- I can remember when Digest rated the course among its top 100 years ago and I was so looking forward to playing the course given all the hype (the chocolate connection), the tie to Hogan having been there as an assistant and from its havin served as host to previous big time events.

I was frankly really disappointed because although the course does a feature a number of strong par-4's there wasn't much of a compelling nature to the architecture. What it demonstrated was that despite having the wherewithal to host events and a solid location to lure folks from a variety of different larger towns the overall architecture was merely good but far from outstanding.

Best of luck with the "new & improved" layout.

p.s. Hats off to the drainage priority -- the place truly needs it in a number of different spots.


astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Any updates on this course?  I'm supposed to play there on Friday.
Thanks.

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
My understanding is that the work has been placed on hold.
Curious to hear what Lester has to say.  If you have not played the West, I think you will enjoy it.

TEPaul

Matt, my friend, you know what----I now have a new-found appreciation for how you apparently tend to pick up quickly on the fundamental essence of things on your course and architecture analyzing visits.

I say that because a couple of times you mentioned to Lester the importance of drainage issues fixes on those courses, most particularly the Maurice McCarthy West course (apparently done in the late 1920s).

No shit Matt, and really good pick up on your part. I had no idea how endemic and really prevasive the topographical problems really are that cause real drainage issues on that course (West) and even some of the other course.

So what does that translate into when one looks at the down-time? They told me something like 30-40 days a year in down time. That translates into a lot of potential revenue that Hershey can pretty much bank on losing each and every year I'm sure, unless and until some cosmic event creates some kind of Sahara Desert Effect out of at least central Pennsylvania.

This is going to be big project on two courses and an expensive one too. It has to be if you look at what needs to be done to protect some of those holes and avoid that kind of water problem down time.

Some other time I'll get into why in the hell Maurice MacCarthy routed some holes and fairways where he did but the fact is some of them on the West are essentially at or near the way under-functioning egress point of water that comes right into that spot from what amounts to scores of square miles around that place.

Again, Milton Hershey probably just made Maurice MacCarthy put those drainage problem holes where he did because apparently Milton Hershey, unquestionably the biggest Chocolate Honcho the world has ever seen (there is no question at all that God put Milton Hershey on this earth to perfect chocolate that could be affordable for all) wanted to have golf holes surrounding his mansion. Milton Hershey was a macro thinker and I think he would be as proud as a ten ton chocolate Hershey Kiss that Lester is on the job to finally fix his courses.

Now, if Milton Hershey actually did not force Maurice MacCarthy to put some of those holes and fairways around Milton's mansion in what could only be described as some elongated natural bathtubs that take on way more water than their drains can handle, then I'm afraid I will have to label old Maurice as an Architect----Maurice "Bathtub" MacCarthy. 

Again, this over-all two course project is going to be expensive to fix this endemic water problem for staters but there is an alternative. And that is Lester and his two guys, Glenn and Nate are some kind of macro-thinkers and macro problem-solvers and that did not escape me when I went out to meet them there a couple of weeks ago. I felt because they are such macro thinkers and problem solvers that there may actually be a way that Lester could figure out to sort of cut the annual rainfall out there down by about 75% and then Maurice MacCarthy's course would not get so water-logged so often and the club wouldn't lose so much annual revenue on down-time.

So, I ran that alternative by Lester when out there. He said, "Sure, I think I could do that if you gave me a really good topo-contour map of the North American continent." He said in less than a week he could come up with a viable plan to cut rainfall down out there by about 75% but unfortunately it would probably take something north of $117 billion to do but it certainly could be done. While thinking about this Lester actually remarked the fix might even make central Pennsylvania look like a really good redan from space and that might be cool too.

But then Lester, being the macro thinker he is, said: "But if I did that then the grass wouldn't grow out here as it does and therefore the special cows out here wouldn't be able to produce the special milk which is the key to the increased shelf-life of Hershey chocolates that is the key to their affordability; and then the entire world would be deprived of Hershey Chocolate."

Can you believe how cool it is to be a macro thinker who thinks like that? All I could say is: "Good point Lester; incredibly big, huge, Uber point, but a good point nonetheless.

Lester was for years in the military and he's a Whizzzz with topos and solving macro problems with them; the bigger and better they are the more he can solve. On my way home I got to thinking that if Obama made Lester the temporary Secretary of Defense and gave him a really good topo countour map of Afganistan and Pakistan there is little question that inside a month and a half Lester will be able to bag Osama bin Laden and all his Al Queda fellow-travelors hiding in caves all over those countries and then the world would be a better place!  ;)


« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 02:49:45 PM by TEPaul »

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tom,

You are giving me valuable insight into the way your mind works.  I promise that will come in handy one day.

As we discussed, when I finish with you, you will have savant-like ability with topo and then we will all be in trouble.

Thanks for the revelational comments on Hershey.  It is amazing to me, Glenn and Nate how much you picked up on in such a short time there.  Next time I hope the weather is good so we can actually walk on some of the ground.

As far as Bin-Laden,  I can definitely reduce the problem to topo there as well.  Give me enough munitions and I'll convert it all to FLAT!!!

That should take care of him.

Lester

TEPaul

"As we discussed, when I finish with you, you will have savant-like ability with topo and then we will all be in trouble."


Lester:

Have you seen this new TV program where Hank Haney has taken on the "Impossible" task of trying to teach Charles Barkley to hit a golf ball properly?

Well, if you want to teach me to read a topo map properly or well your task is going to be a whole lot harder than Haney's.

However, I definitely do have some interesting "outside-the-box" ideas, now and again, and one reason may be I'm afraid I might be on the cusp of losing my mind which is not a wholly bad thing, mind you, as I can't say it has served me all that well anyway.

You teach me how to use a topo really well and I will design you a hallmark golfer course off a topo map of the property by using that topo upside down. You want some really good "random"---I'll show you some really good "random" architecture!

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back