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Ed Tilley

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Royal County Down and Royal Portrush are two courses that are often bracketed together due to their proximity and quality. Numerous publications make reference to a ‘fierce debate’ about which is the finer of these two great links. Having recently had the good fortune to play both within a 24 hour period (Portrush at 2pm last Thursday, RCD at 8am on Friday), I thought it would be interesting to do a hole by hole comparison, scoring as if in a boxing match to see if, from my perspective, there was a clear winner.

At the outset, I should confess that I don’t believe there really should be a debate.  Portrush is undoubtedly a great course - one of the 4 or 5 finest courses I’ve played -  whereas RCD stands apart as far and away the best course I’ve had the pleasure to experience. I played Portrush on one of the finest days you will ever likely get – glorious sunshine and very little wind, with the rough cut well back. At RCD, it was at least a 3 club wind with intermittent showers / downpours, although the mountains were fully visible for most of the round.

As I was stupid enough to forget my camera, I have borrowed the photos from a combination of the course reviews on this site, and the wonderful www.golfarchitecturepictures.com . If I have offended anyone by doing so I apologise.

RCD first three
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2






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Portrush first 3
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Portrush's first hole, a mid length par 4, possesses a great green site, and I can personally attest to the fearsome nature of the front left bunker. However, the OOB either side of the fairway has an unnatural look and makes the hole slightly unsatisfactory for me. The first at RCD, a reachable par 5, is simply a great opening hole - a hugely attractive and inviting drive that gets the golfing juices flowing from the off, with danger (namely the beach) lurking down the right hand side.  A decent drive will tempt the golfer to go for the green, wonderfully sited in a small dell, but danger lurks left and right. First round to RCD by a distance, 10-8

Both courses have strong second holes. Portrush is a lovely see-saw par 5 that bends to the left through a natural valley. The green is beautifully sited at the base of the dune. At RCD, the 2nd drive is completely blind, although the fairway is wide. However, only those drives down the centre of the fairway will have a view of the green, which is small and raised and all too eager to kick balls off to the side. Portrush 10-9

Portrush has a very attractive short 3rd to a raised green with ample protection. on a windy day this would be a very difficult target and the views are wonderful. The 3rd at RCD, however, is another world class hole. A long par 4, dog legging to the right through a valley to a green at the base of a huge dune. Nothing but 2 of your best will do here. RCD 10-9.

I will post further pictures and comments in 3 hole segments. Feel free to comment / call me an idiot at any stage.



« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 12:01:36 PM by Ed Tilley »

George Pazin

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You're an idiot - if you think anyone will call you an idiot! (Besides me....)

Thanks for sharing, hope others will chime in.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Joe Hancock

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Keep posting pictures like that and I will respectfully call you Mr. idiot.

 ;D

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Ash Towe

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Joe, thanks for posting the pictures.  Keep them coming!

Matt_Ward

Ed:

Great pictures indeed !

When you say the rough at Dunluce was cut "way back" I would hope you can explain that further. In my time at Dunluce the fairways were too narrow and often provided hay-like rough for shots that missed by just the tiniest of margins.

If Dunluce were widened to reflect a bit more concern with maximizign playing angles it would play far better than its desire to highlight a penal dimension from many of the tees. Since you played it recently I'm quite curious if this situation has now changed.

County Down, for me, is really about the front half of holes. The back nine is good but it's quite noticeable in terms of the overall stature of the course moving at cruise control and not really cutting anynew ground beyond what the opening 9 holes provide IMHO.

Matthew Hunt

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Does anyone think the first tees would be better where the bushes are here? It would turn a good tee shot both strategically and aesthetically into a really good one   
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 02:59:53 PM by Matthew Hunt »

K. Krahenbuhl

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Ed,

A few years back I had the chance to play the two courses on back to back days as you did.  I completely agree with you that Portrush is a fantastic course, but Royal County Down takes it to another level.  I'm looking forward to the completion of this thread.

Ed Tilley

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Ed:

Great pictures indeed !

When you say the rough at Dunluce was cut "way back" I would hope you can explain that further. In my time at Dunluce the fairways were too narrow and often provided hay-like rough for shots that missed by just the tiniest of margins.

If Dunluce were widened to reflect a bit more concern with maximizign playing angles it would play far better than its desire to highlight a penal dimension from many of the tees. Since you played it recently I'm quite curious if this situation has now changed.

County Down, for me, is really about the front half of holes. The back nine is good but it's quite noticeable in terms of the overall stature of the course moving at cruise control and not really cutting anynew ground beyond what the opening 9 holes provide IMHO.

Matt,

I don't know whether this is a permanent thing or just due to the time of the year but the rough was genuinely cut - not just lacking in growth from the winter months. E.g. The first hole had no rough at all between the OOB posts. At the second, the rough had been cut, to fairway height, a good 10 yards on either side. This treatment was consisitent throughout the course compared to the pictures. The pictures above scared me more than a little when I saw them - I'm not the straightest driver, but i found the course very playable. A missed drive did not automatically equate to a lost ball as I had been warned. That said, it was still a mighty test.

Ed

Ed Tilley

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RCD 4-6

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5






6






Portrush 4-6

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5






6




A great stretch of golf on both courses.

The 4th hole at Portrush is a true world class hole – wonderful natural contours on the fairway, with an all world green site tucked in a dune. Throw in the fabulous setting and it’s difficult to believe that it could possibly lose. However, the 4th at RCD is one of the game’s great par 3’s. A stunning backdrop, a terrifying carry over, in early summer, a sea of golden gorse, and a fantastic green site make this RCD’s round – just. RCD 10-9

A medium length par 4 with a partially blind drive, swinging to the right, to a wonderfully sited green, with a stunning backdrop. This description could equally be applied to both 5th holes. RCD’s 5th is a world class links hole but doesn’t set the pulses racing like Portrush’s 5th - an inspiring, all world hole. If playing this hole doesn’t make you feel glad to be alive, then it’s either absolutely miserable weather or you really shouldn’t be on this site. Portrush 10-9

Portrush’s 6th is a tricky, medium length par 3 in amongst the dunes. It almost goes without saying that the green site is superb – this really is Portrush’s biggest strength. RCD’s 6th is a short / medium 4 with another blind drive. As on most of the blind drives at RCD, a reasonably wide fairway awaits. The strength of the hole is it’s tiny raised green which, in the wind, can be a devil to hold. On the card, the golfer is thinking 3, but a 5 or worse can easily await those who approach without care. RCD 10-9. 

After 6 holes RCD 58 Portrush 55

Brad Tufts

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What an awesome debate...what I see so far (I played each once in 7/07), let's see if my conclusions mirror Ed's:

#1s:  RCD's is a gentle opener, although a good place to take a shot where you will likely be giving them back later.  A saddle fairway helps straight drives go even straighter, a broad, deep green offers a chance to chip close for birdie or par.  Portrush may have the OB, but this is easily one of the more devilish greens on the course.  It would take many rounds to feel comfortable with this approach.  Portrush 10-9.

#2s:  RCD has a blind drive, and a semi-blind second, an introduction to what the player will face for much of the rest of the round.  Not a hard hole, but increased challenge and interest from #1.  Portrush's short par 5 second is comparable to RCD's #1 in challenge, and it also is a place to take a shot where the rough will gobble at least one later.  Portrush's undulations make its #2 more interesting.  Portrush 10-9.

#3s:  RCD is a long hole, the first brute of the round, and the challenge has been escalated.  A long drive is needed to a fairway that ends in a rise, and the green is below a marker pole.  Deep, wild bunkers await the sliced fairway wood or long iron.  The green is mercifully flat and open, but the game is getting there.  At Portrush, we have a relatively benign par 3, but with severe trouble for the missed short iron.  RCD 10-8.

#4s:  RCD has a beautiful longish par 3 from one of the greater panoramas in Ireland.  The entire course is below, and from here is looks like a minefield of gorse, grass-edged bunkers, and heather.  The green is underrated with steep fall-offs on three sides and a bunker on the fourth.  At Portrush, the fourth is one of the strongest par fours on the course, complete with centerline bunkers, interesting fairway undulations, and an attractive green set in a ring of dunes.  Tough call here, a draw? 9-9.  Is that allowed?

#5s:  RCD's fifth is an elegant left to right par four that takes the round into some serious landforms.  The drive is blind to a wide fairway, and the green is seemingly open yet exacting, with long slopes and shoulders to complicate chipping or putting.  At Portrush, the fifth is on of the showcase holes.  Bite off as much as you dare, if you fail your ball is at the mercy of the rabbit trails and clumps of tall grass.  However, there is ample room for the conservative, if they do not mind an uneven lie to a two-tiered elevated green.  Another tough call, but Portrush 10-9.

#6s:  RCD plays a blind drive to a wide fairway, but the green is the showpiece here.  The inverted saucer green would rival any at Pinehurst, and is one of the smallest at RCD.  A techincal hole requiring an accurate tee shot (not necessarily with driver), and a pinpoint wedge.  At Portrush, an attractive par three with your back to the cliffs towards the Giant's Causeway, but not one of the more memorable holes on the course.  RCD 9-8.

Through 6 holes, I have Portrush 55 - RCD 55!

So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

ClarkW

Well, I'm certainly enjoying this match. Wonderful pictures and great memories of both courses having played them multiple times over the past 10 years. It's hard to take issue with either scorecard given the strengths of both County Down and Portrush... however, I've nominated RCD as having the best front nine in golf on this site before. Now I'll have to see if my personal #1 seed (with apologies to the ongoing NCAAs) loses to another arguable #1 seed in the "North" bracket!

Matt_Ward

Ed:

I have to wonder if it's a time of the year type of thing. Frankly, I was genuinely put off that a course of the stature of Dunluce would have to resort to the "let's narrow the landing areas and flank them with hay-like rough." The design - as your photos clearly indicate -- demonstrates the caliber of the holes.

I have to hope that the powers-that-be have taken to heart the idea that eliminating width was a smart thing to do. Dunluce doesn't need hay-like conditions -- minus the extreme wayward drive -- to handle all types of players.

Gents:

Keep in mind this -- regarding Dunluce v County Down. The former doesn't fall off much, if anything at all, between the outer and inner nines. At CD -- the drop-off to the return nine is noticeable and often little is said when people assess the total time there.

What would make for an interesting four-ball contest is Dunluce & County Down versus the likes of Sand Hills and Ballyneal. If push comes to shove I'll take the American duo.

Matt,

I don't know whether this is a permanent thing or just due to the time of the year but the rough was genuinely cut - not just lacking in growth from the winter months. E.g. The first hole had no rough at all between the OOB posts. At the second, the rough had been cut, to fairway height, a good 10 yards on either side. This treatment was consisitent throughout the course compared to the pictures. The pictures above scared me more than a little when I saw them - I'm not the straightest driver, but i found the course very playable. A missed drive did not automatically equate to a lost ball as I had been warned. That said, it was still a mighty test.

Ed

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Matt,

Do you feel the same way about the rough/gunsch at Prairie Dunes?  The fairways are much wider at PD, but the gunsch is similar at both in terms of playability..

Matt_Ward

Sean:

Good question.

I don't have any issue with hay-like rough provided the width situation is also included. Too often courses of utter distinction believe they need to add a penal / lost ball dimension into the mixture when the quality of the design doesn't need this "help" from man's hands through such irregular actions.

I've played PD and love the layout -- ditto my fondness for Bethpage Black. But I am concerned - especially with the latter -- with its penchant to narrow the fairways to extremes and then adding insult to injury with rough that only permits a sideways play back to the fairway. Recovery is part and parcel of the game -- minus the extreme wayward drive.

My time at Dunluce was a bit of disappointment through such actions and I'm happy to hear from Ed the situation has indeed changed.

Candidly, in my mind, courses that overdose on rough are trying to make-up for a lack of real distinction with the actual design. Courses like Dunluce don't need such a contrivance.

Sean Leary

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Is it a cost/maintenance issue (ala PD) more than a "lets make it brutally tough"? I don't know just asking. There are a couple of drives at the Dunluce that are ridiculously tight, where I agree, it is just too much.

Prairie Dunes did a bunch of clearing of non prairie grasses (anything with a wooded stem, basically) in the fall.  They also are doing a burning this spring.  Places like roght of 7 were playable actually, and it took a bit of teeth out of that drive (where right means re-tee normally).

It will be interesting to see what it plays like after the burn (as well what Coore's  slight modifications to the 2nd green look like).

Ed Tilley

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RCD 7-9

7


left of the green


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9






Portrush 7-9

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9







Portrush’s 7th is a very tough hole – stroke index 1. It flows left with heavy rough both sides. The second is difficult to a slightly raised, well bunkered target. A solid, if unspectacular hole. RCD’s 7th is a formidable short par 3. As the second picture shows, don’t go left. However in the prevailing wind – into and from the right – this is easier said than done. On the scorecard this looks easy, but can play very tough. RCD 10-9.

Portrush’s 8th is a charming short par 4 that, after a partially blind drive, turns to the right through a valley in the dunes. The green site is again the strength, beautifully tucked into the dune. A real cracker. RCD’s 8th is a mighty par 4. It bends gently uphill and to the right. The green is situated at the top of the dune and there is no future for the player who hits it left. What manner of man could make a 3 here into a 3 club wind – honestly I don’t like to talk about it (and I definitely don’t want to talk about the other 17 holes). A real heavyweight clash but the honours must go to Portrush. Portrush 10-9.

Portrush’s 9th is a strong hole – a reachable par 5 doglegging to the right. The fairway is a bit of a rollercoaster and the green site is again a strength. Last week, the rough was cut back and it was very playable. However, if the rough is grown in, it can be fearsome, and in my view less of a hole. RCD’s 9th is one of the most photographed holes in golf, and one of the most thrilling. The blind drive over the steep hill is tricky but the fairway below is wide and flat. The view from the top of the hill is sensational. The second shot is long and exacting to a beautifully sited green, slightly raised at the base of a dune. Without the rough at Portrush, RCD 10-9. (with the rough up, this would change to 10-8).

At the turn. RCD 87, Portrush 83. Can RCD cling on in the back nine? 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 05:39:15 AM by Ed Tilley »

Andrew Bertram

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Thanks Ed

A wonderful thought provoking discussion.

I was fortunate to play both in 2006. Very hard to split the front nines with the stunning 4th and 5th at Portrush against the sheer overall beauty fo RCD.

I look forward to the back nine.

 :)

Andrew Mitchell

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Wonderful stuff Ed.  I'm eagerly awaiting updates.

RCD (& to a lesser extent Portrush) has been on my wish list for a few years now.  This thread tells me I really must make the effort to go there before long.  What is there for a non golfing wife to do in the area for those four or five hours? ;D
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
55-55 after 6 holes...

#7s:  RCD has a short par three playing into the wind around an interesting brow of a fronting hill.  A pulled shot finds one of the many grass swales around the green.  The only miss here is right.  At Portrush, a very narrow, difficult hole with a big green.  Not the best hole at either course, but #7 at RCD is much more fun.  RCD 9-8.

#8s:  RCD's long par four 8th has another deceptively wide fairway with quite a bit of undulation.  The green is uphill, into the breeze, and surrounded by trouble.  Portrush has a short par four of about 350, where a long iron from the tee will suffice.  The approach is to a green tucked into the rolling dunescape.  RCD hands down, 10-8.

#9s:  RCD's best hole?  This long par four plays blind over and down a huge hillside, the view from the top is the stuff of dreams.  The green is also deceptive, accepting only long shots over fronting bunkers, with the heather-covered Matterhorn short and right.  #9 at Portrush is a short par five, asking for little more than a straight drive.  RCD 10-8.

RCD picks up the pace....84-79 after the front.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Ed Tilley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wonderful stuff Ed.  I'm eagerly awaiting updates.

RCD (& to a lesser extent Portrush) has been on my wish list for a few years now.  This thread tells me I really must make the effort to go there before long.  What is there for a non golfing wife to do in the area for those four or five hours? ;D

The Slieve Donard hotel - the red building you can see at the back of the 9th - has just spent several million upgrading its spa facilities. Apparently it recently won an award for being one of the top spas in Europe. I can't personally vouch for this as, when I stayed there, it hadn't been upgraded. It also accepts Tesco clubcard vouchers if you're collecting them - I'm thinking of taking the family there next summer.

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think most would have County Down up,  overall I reckon the only better features at Portrush are its greens:  more interestingly contoured than County Down's.

12-13 H.S. Colt holes in that lot ;)

PS 7th is one of Portrush's great holes.  A draw, then fade, S shaped hole with a wonderful green complex.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 10:00:54 AM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Jeff Doerr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks Ed!

I look forward to the back nine slugfest.

I love RCD, but one thing that strikes me about the images from Portrush is the bunkers, They have a great scary style that gets you thinking, "How deep is that thing?"
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wonderful stuff Ed.  I'm eagerly awaiting updates.

RCD (& to a lesser extent Portrush) has been on my wish list for a few years now.  This thread tells me I really must make the effort to go there before long.  What is there for a non golfing wife to do in the area for those four or five hours? ;D

The Slieve Donard hotel - the red building you can see at the back of the 9th - has just spent several million upgrading its spa facilities. Apparently it recently won an award for being one of the top spas in Europe.

Thanks Ed - my chances of playing RCD in the future have now increased massively ;D
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
 As RPR moves away from the shoreline the holes on average lack definition , particularly on the tee shots. I often wonder where to hit the ball. RCD has more interesting angles on its tee shots in the interior.
AKA Mayday

Ed Tilley

  • Karma: +0/-0
RCD 10-12

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11






12





Portrush 10-12

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11




12





Portrush’s 10th hole is another par 5 bending to the right. This is a solid hole on the lesser part of the property. While the green site is again superb, it is not one of the course's best. RCD's 10th is a solid par 3, with an intimidating tee shot from right in front of the members' bar window. The green is attractively situated and while neither hole is outstanding, RCD just shades it 10-9.

Portrush's 11th is a medium length drop shot par 3 to a small target ringed by bunkers. It is a very attractive but exacting hole. RCD's 11th is intimidation personified. the drive is as blind as blind can be - a 40ft dune sits right in front of the tee. The hole bends attractively left over the dune but the green complex is relatively flat. Portrush 10-9

Portrush's 12th is a superb links hole with a lovely rippled fairway and yet another superbly sited raised green. RCD's 12th is a relatively gentle reachable par 5. A par 4 and a half, it provides welcome respite from the relentless challenge on offer elsewhere but as a stand alone hole it loses out. Portrush 10-9.

After 12 holes

RCD 115, Portrush 112

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