[Sean_A]

Will--welcome to the site. ...........................On a course like Tiger won the British Open on in 2006, it is not possible to play an aerial game, the course will not accept it. .........................golf courses should remain very natural and not be pumped with millions of gallons of water per day in order to keep them green. Its not so much the type of game that is prefered, but the type of agronimic practices that are preferred by members of this site. I myself also like firm conditions that force me to think.
--Also, so many modern courses have been designed with only aerial in mind and that again forces the type of agromony that is used, since real firm and fast would not matter, you would still have to fly the ball where you want it to go.

I like firm conditions, too, but would like to gently challenge many of your statements after "Will - Welcome to the site!)

IMHO Tiger won the last Open by laying up more than any particular use of the ground game........

Most courses put out 100's of 100's of gallons per night. Very few average over a million, and none averages several million gallons per day, with perhaps the exception of a few desert courses, who are probably now undergoing rationing, a la Palm Desert.

I would love to see a list of the 6000 modern courses with a hole count of how many do NOT have frontal openings to the greens that allow the ground game by design, if not by maintenance practice.  While the normal green might be elevated a few feet, so are most of the greens at TOC.

Should courses remain "natural" rather than have irrigated turf?  Last time I tried it, I got very little roll through either the trees, prairie grasses, or even corn that existed on site before building the golf course!  Believe me, turf probably wasn't natural at TOC either. I recall reading that they tore out gorse to make turf fw.  While it varies in different parts of the country, most combinations of turf and soil just don't allow survival in a deep brown state.  While they might be able to be run with leaner water budgets, in fact, most supers water just to the need of the plant to keep it above critical field capacity.  And yes, they are scared to cut it too close because of the cost and downtime of replanting.  All that said, you can be green and somewhat firm with many turfs.

Lastly, my take on the old readings of the Golden Age are that the ground game was dying a slow death, and some are ignoring that and romantically recreating it in their minds.  The difference from the 1930's is degrees - very few could spin a 3 iron with old equipment, but the shorter irons were expected to hit and bite.   The response was often the "short shot, small green" idea. Thomas wrote that he sloped up short iron approch greens to help the check of a shot.

I believe the march to the aerial game has been going on, because its easier.  Like airlines are safer than Amtrak - once airborn you aren't going to run into anything, while a train has potential bad bounces at every road crossing.  At least until the winds really pick up.  Why would a competitive golfer play the ground game unless he really had to, given greater potential for things to go wrong?

Lastly, the ground game can exist today. It just starts a lot closer to the green front - or side.  While there is no running a shot 50 yards on to the green, I think its just as fun and as much challenge to try to use a green cross slope or slight redan bank to get your shot where it needs to go as it is to run one fifty yards.  As noted, you still need to pick a  spot to fly to and hit it to get the right result.  That can be more fun than picking a spot just in front of the pin or just behind it with even greater spin to aim at, and can help you avoid hazards, so its a good thing.

Good night, gracie.

Jeff

I am not sure you took in the whole picture of Hoylake 2006.  I do believe that Tiger won because he was very concerned about the ground game - that is what happened to his ball after it landed.  Tiger hit irons because of firmness of the ground.  Now the fault with not being willing to hit driver really lies with Hoylake over-bunkering the course at the landing zones not with the conditions.  Either way, watching Tiger play his way around Hoylake was a sight to behold.  If proved to me beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is the smartest and most creative player out there. 

This shouldn't really be a debate of aerial VS ground.  It should be centered around both options being largely available and they are even on old fashioned links in certain conditions.  Golf courses should reflect the weather conditions rather than playing consistently no matter the weather.  Of course, I like to see the odd do or die shot which requires the aerial bomb, but  golf would be a dull affair over the long run if aerial strategy becomes too dominant.

Ciao

 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Sean,

Fair enough on Tiger. I didn't equate the defensive (i.e. don't roll in a fw bunker) ground allowance as the same thing as "offensive" ground game tactics of getting a ball to point A via point B on the ground.  I guess its both sides of the same coin, though.

J Kenneth Moore,

I hate to see golf lovers exagerate the amount of water used for any reason. Its bad enough when golf opponents use those exagerations to shut down responsible water, fertilizer and input use.

My main point was that I would love to see a green by green study (a masters thesis in gca, perhaps) of all modern age courses.  Any of our limited personal experiences might not be right.  When I read your statement I started mentally counting up those on my courses, courses I know, etc.  There are some that require aerial attack, but I equate the necessity via frontal bunkering/watering of those perhaps from the 60's-70's mostly when difficulty was a top 100 criteria for top courses.  Even then, more courses were built as golf factories than for difficulty. I think we focus on only the best known courses of each era and draw possibly false conclusions from that.

Just MHO>

[Mark Pearce]

Tiger hit driver once at Hoylake, on the 16th on the Friday (I think).  He hooked it so badly that it ended up on the far side of the 17th fairway.  He made birdie from there anyway but it was a shocking shot (I was under the flight path on the left of the fairway and it was hooking violently).  However, at that time his driver was going everywhere but the right fairway.  I'm sure he'd have hit more drivers if he'd been accurate with that club at that time.  He wasn't, though, and, being Tiger, found a way to win anyway.

[Grant Saunders]

Im with Clint and Ryan.

I too "play" golf. Im in it for getting the ball in the hole with as few shots as possible and how that comes about is ultimately irrelevant. If I feel I can get the ball closest to the hole along the ground, than I will play that shot. If I feel that through the air will provide me the best results than I will take that option. The feeling of achievement in hitting a good shot along the ground or in the air is the same.

I do prefer courses that offers both options as it then provides the golfers with the choice of how to play the course. But when faced with a forced decision ie a bunker or other obstacle that must be played over than so be it. I take that opportunity to test my skill in that particular area of my game. The same applies when faced with a shot under a tree or in a stiff crosswind where the ground game becomes the only option.

Aerial design does not represent the best test of golfers at the highest levels of the sport, either. Top-tier golfers should be tested for their ability to control the ball after it lands. 

 

Mark

Have you never witnessed the precise relationship with which a top level golfer lands a golf ball combined with the correct spin to finish pin high? I recall watching Phil Mickelson fly a wedge 30 feet past a pin and then have the ball spin back 35 feet to leave a nice uphill 5 foot putt to the hole. That shows tremendous ability to "control the ball after it lands". I even recall reading a story about a Canadian player by the name of Moe Norman who could in fact while the ball was in flight "call" the number of bounces it would take upon landing.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()