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Mike_Cirba

Youz all want architecture??! I'll give ya architecture!!
« on: April 06, 2008, 10:09:22 PM »
Alright...let's hear it.

Compare and contrast...what are the similarities?  differences?   pros?  cons? 

Is there a place for something like this today?   Why?  Why not?

Is this the type of greensite(s) you'd relish approaching?   dread?  or snooze thru?

Do these two greensites look to be the work of the same architect to you?   

Would this type of greensite work best as a "one-off", or would you like to see a course with many similar type of demands?



« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 10:18:26 PM by MPCirba »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Youz all want architecture??! I'll give ya architecture!!
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2008, 01:18:40 AM »
Mike,
   It is difficult to answer without more information. I assume the land is coming downhill into the greens from the top of the first picture. Obviously the shape of the greens is quite different. I would assume that the hole on the right was modified over time as it is not as geometrical as the other one. I would imagine the green on the right falls away, thus the rear bunker, or the approach is pretty downhill and that could explain the bunker.
   The green on the left could be one that was felt to be so unique that it is a hole that simply wasn't modified over the years as the one on the right may have been.
   I like the spine in the middle of the green, but find the bank to the right of the green to be curious-looking. Is the green on the left about 8-10 feet lower than the green on the right? Does the green on the right have a bunker guarding the front left that is hidden in shadow?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Youz all want architecture??! I'll give ya architecture!!
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2008, 06:28:45 AM »
I'd love to see the one on the bottom in person.  I would lose that tree, though.


wsmorrison

Re: Youz all want architecture??! I'll give ya architecture!!
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2008, 06:52:46 AM »
The berm behind the green in the bottom photo was about 15' high.  The green itself was about 8' above surrounding grade.  It was awful looking from every angle but afforded spectators a nice viewing mound.  I'm glad it was removed when the holes were changed in 1922.  What was that Charlie Mac thinking?   ;)

Mike_Cirba

Re: Youz all want architecture??! I'll give ya architecture!!
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2008, 03:01:04 PM »
Hi Ed,

How's things?

I put these two together and was hoping someone could perhaps add the aerial of the old 12th at Garden City as examples of some fairly bizarrely unusual greensites built by some of our early heroes.

In the case of the top picture, the greensite on the left is the one I was focusing on, but the greensite on the right is illustrative only in showing what a "one-off" greensite the left-hand green is, because every other green on the course was more of a low-profile, lay-of-the-land, limited bunkering, extension of the fairway green, and yet you have this clearly manufactured, harshly symmetrical, albeit kinda cool green in their midst.  All of the greens were created at the same time, in 1915, opening in 1916.

The hole to the left-hand green is a short par four of only 297 yards, but it is blind from the tee and rises 50 feet from tee to green, most of it in the first 150 yards.  From the look of things, I'm not sure how much green surface would be visible to the approach, and that's the case today, with sand buildup creating a higher lip than appears in the old photo.

Today, the "wings" to the side have been lost, the greensite has shrunk, the green has been flattened, but both the front and rear bunkers remain, but the high "backboard" to the rear bunker is similarly gone.


The second picture is of the old 10th at Merion, and the subject of so much heated discussion here a while back.   


If anyone has an aerial of the old 12th at Garden City they can add here, it would be greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 03:02:38 PM by MPCirba »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Youz all want architecture??! I'll give ya architecture!!
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2008, 03:26:26 PM »
Cirba,

Are you trying to pull a fast one?  That green on the left hand side looks like a practice area/green.  Are you sure its even a green on the course?   ;D  ;)