[RSLivingston_III]

Mike what hole isn't?  The goal of playing golf is to maximize your score.  TR is a crap shoot.  But your too young to gamble.  

Darren, I think you mean minimize.

[Darren deMaille]

Mike you think a course is great becuase of it's price? 

Ralph, it was a joke.  I did mean maximize. 

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Mike you think a course is great becuase of it's price? 

Darren-

I was right, the late hour is getting to your brain.

You said "It just seems that so much attention is given to this place."

I said:
"Overall I like Tobacco Road, but do think its hyped up . I think this is because its a good golf course that is relatively inexpensive  with easy access in an area thats overpriced, and has some harder access to better courses.

[Jesse Jones]

Darren,

I enjoy the course because it is unique. It's the right course in such a golf rich area. To me, it's the perfect watercooler course. Not many golfers walk off the course, shrug their shoulders and say "whatever".

I mean damn, how many TR threads have we had on this site?
 

[Dan Herrmann]

Ryan, i did not mean to offend you, but a lot of pgmers play there and don't get it.  I think it comes with experience, which most college kids dont' have, but because of the program they are in think they do.  As i have been down that road.  To me good architecture allows for creativity and i think tabacco road is forced golf.  

Darren,
I played TR with my wife in 2005 while she was still shooting > 100.  I promise you that she didn't feel that it was "forced golf" from her tees.  She found it to be creative, unique, and fun.

No - TR is not a great golf course in the lines of a Merion, Oakmont, or Pebble Beach.   But it is one helluva daily fee course at a decent price.

TR will always produce polarized opinions, and I completely respect Darren's opinion.

[Doug Ralston]

I do not understand why anyone trys to compare TR to 'serious' golf courses. It was not meant to be serious, clearly. Strantz wanted something extreme that was simply a laugh to play. If you did not laugh, then you simply didn't 'get the joke'.

It's fun! That is all it is. Do try to overanalyse it, put it in comparison to real, serious, honest to God golf courses. Just play if for laughs, and you will get them.

Doug

 

[Adam Russell]

Since this began seemingly as an old vs. young thread, can it be possible to have one course geared toward younger people enjoying it more than our elders. There are 30 million golf courses that cater to seniority, and rightly so, but can't there be one course that young people can gravitate towards because it asks for the shots that young people like to try. Hey, every once in awhile, I like to hit golf shots as far as I can and flag-hunt every green. Maybe Darren, you don't get TR because...you're OLD. I would hope that architecture would be evolved enough that we can have one course like this that breaks all the rules and is still a great place to play. Who cares if TR is forced, contrived, risk-reward? Its the clown's mouth of golf courses...why do people keep coming back to TR over and over again if there's no enjoyment. Every thread that doesn't "get" TR always has posters that state they've played the course again and again.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

MS Sweeney please modify all posts to I love TR. You know who loves Tobacco Road and would join there if it was private. You are treading on thin ice very thin ice. He is a key to happiness in your golf life. Repeat again over and over I love Tobacco Road. Anybody who disagrees with me is nothing more than a member of a Donald Trump club.

[cary lichtenstein]

Darren

Please list your top 10 favorites that you have personally played

[Darren deMaille]

cary, i have read a lot of your threads and respect you opinions.  Yeamans is my favorite followed by jupiter island then medalist.  I see where you are going with this.  I have also come to understand that tr is a place to have fun. But as far as design, that is the only catergorie we should put it in. 

[George Pazin]

I can think of a few other categories to put it in: thought provoking, unique, quirky, even affordable (at least last time I checked, I don't know what it's up to now).

In the end, Doug's sentiment rings most true to me: it's a design meant to be enjoyed for its own sake, for fun. I don't think it was meant to challenge the Merions and Oakmonts of the world.

[Gary Daughters]

Darren,

Interesting thoughts.  Is English your first language?

[cary lichtenstein]

Darren,

Interesting thoughts.  Is English your first language?

[John Moore II]

Quite the invigorating discussion. Its always nice when some wants to bash a course but seemingly never say whats so generally wrong with it. And yet, not one seems to come back and say what many of us think is great about it. So, I will say what I think is great/good about it...
1. The course is more or less routed naturally around the ground that Strantz was given to work with.
2. The course is very unique, you will find very few like it anywhere.
3. There are many options to playing many of the holes. I would say that #1 is the only hole there where you are more or less forced to play the same shots, other than par 3's.
 
I could probably come up with more, but these are enough, and more than anyone else has said. Personally, I would probably say Tobacco Road was one of the five best courses I have played.

[Chip Gaskins]

Mr. Moore-  I would have said many of those same things except they have been said so many times in the past (probably too many time by me due to my love of the place) so I decided to just step back and listen.  Simply put, the course is one of the most inspiring inland courses I have ever played.  Every shot you go "wow, hmmm, well, now what, hmmm"

[John Moore II]

Chip-I have said many of the same things as well, I simply could not let them go. TR is a very good course, overrated by some, underrated by many. I would say that its in the top 25 golf courses in the state of NC, and yet probably not in the top 10 of the Sandhills. I do agree with your comment about how you are just struck by nearly every shot, especially the first time you play, I know I was.

[Chip Gaskins]

I would say that its in the top 25 golf courses in the state of NC, and yet probably not in the top 10 of the Sandhills

are you serious, you must be just yanking my chain.

[John Moore II]

Chip--In no specific order, just how they come to mind, the courses in the Sandhills I feel are better overall (not purely architecturally)than Tobacco Road.
Pinehurst #2, #4, #7, #8
Forest Creek (North and South)
Pine Needles
CC of North Carolina (Dogwood)
Southern Pines Golf Club
---OK, so you made me prove myself wrong, it is in the top 10 overall. There are actually two other clubs I might be able to make a case for, but I won't try, I really do think TR is better than those, and maybe even better than Southern Pines. It is certainly the most unique, but I would say not the best designed. I would say Pine Needles is the best design in the Sandhills, I can honestly say I can find nothing wrong with the design of Needles, while at TR, there are a few places I would call wierd and another few I would call simply dangerous.

[CJ Carder]

Chip--In no specific order, just how they come to mind, the courses in the Sandhills I feel are better overall (not purely architecturally)than Tobacco Road.
Pinehurst #2, #4, #7, #8
Forest Creek (North and South)
Pine Needles
CC of North Carolina (Dogwood)
Southern Pines Golf Club

I would agree with Mr. Moore on this list as well (though I'm taking his word for it on Southern Pines, Forest Creek, and #7).  Again, the quirk and uniqueness is a significant attractor for the Road... it is completely different than every single course on Mr. Moore's list.  As a result, when I head to the Pinehurst area, I find myself playing 1 or 2 of the above, and Tobacco Road.  That in and of itself, regardless of its specific ranking, is what makes it so fab.

[John Moore II]

CJ--you make some good points. I also make it a point to play TR whenever I can, its just a bit of a drive from Southern Pines, so I don't play it as often as I may like. I think the golf course itself is great and certainly very interesting. I could honestly say that if I had to play one course every day the rest of my life and never a different place, TR would be one that I would pick. Of the other Sandhills courses I mentioned, I would only say that about Pine Needles. The course does not get boring or old, it is a VERY GOOD golf course. However, IMHO, it is not a GREAT golf course, going back to what Chip said. TR has too many shots that I consider flatly dangerous to be a great golf course.

[Sean_A]

CJ--you make some good points. I also make it a point to play TR whenever I can, its just a bit of a drive from Southern Pines, so I don't play it as often as I may like. I think the golf course itself is great and certainly very interesting. I could honestly say that if I had to play one course every day the rest of my life and never a different place, TR would be one that I would pick. Of the other Sandhills courses I mentioned, I would only say that about Pine Needles. The course does not get boring or old, it is a VERY GOOD golf course. However, IMHO, it is not a GREAT golf course, going back to what Chip said. TR has too many shots that I consider flatly dangerous to be a great golf course.

J

Man, your take is the exact opposite.  I would gladly play The Road when I visit, but I would never want to make that course my club.  I am curious about the shots which you consider dangerous.  Looking back, I can't think of any shots I would call dangerous unless you classify all blind shots as dangerous.  What are they?

Ciao

[CJ Carder]

I am curious about the shots which you consider dangerous.  Looking back, I can't think of any shots I would call dangerous unless you classify all blind shots as dangerous.  What are they?

I also would be curious about that.  Aside from maybe (and I'm stretching here) the area around 15 and 16, I can't really see where anyone would be in any danger unless there's an idiot or impatient foursome behidn you.

Of course there is the danger area next to 8 tee... but that's only because the last time there, my playing partner shanked one off the tee and drilled our cart that I was sitting in.

[Rick_Noyes]

CJ,

Good thing you never find idiots or impatient foursomes on a golf course

[George Pazin]

I would gladly play The Road when I visit, but I would never want to make that course my club.  I am curious about the shots which you consider dangerous.  Looking back, I can't think of any shots I would call dangerous unless you classify all blind shots as dangerous.  What are they?

I'm in your corner - it's a very fun play, I don't think I would even consider it in the old "one course for life" question.

As far as dangerous shots, the one that stood out most to me was the tee shot on 15, to a blind downhill area. I thought I split the fairway right down the middle but never found my ball. I'm convinced there was a group in front of me I was unaware of that took my ball.

There's quite a few other areas I think someone could make a case for, though I don't think they'd ultimately be right.

[John Moore II]

-The entire 1st hole is somewhat funky/borderline dangerous.
-The tee shot on two-a pull is into the 3rd tee and a straight shot may hit into a group in the fairway as the green is not visible, the 11th tee is also in play from the 2nd tee.
-The 7th tee shot is blind and I also want to say the green is not visible from the tee either
-13 is blind for those trying to take it over the corner, but not when playing the hole like its supposed to be played.
-15 tee shot is semi blind to the left fairway and totally blind to the right.
-and the 18th tee shot is blind.
The 16th tee shot is blind as well, but since the carts are not allowed in the fairway, its easy to see when the group clears. I have to go with what Tom Doak said to me one time (Tom-thanks again for the help) that blind shots tend to be dangerous on public golf courses. Again though, these wierd/funky/dangerous shots do not at all take away from my liking of the course, it just makes the course difficult/nearly dangerous to play on crowded days with people who have not seen the course before.

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