Rating the So Cal publics

[David Stamm]

Matt Ward inspired me to start this thread. In what order would you place these So Cal public access courses? And BTW, if you want to add any please do so.


Rustic Canyon

Barona Creek

PGA West Stadium

La Purisima

Pelican Hill (North and South)

Torrey Pines South

Ojai Valley Inn

Sandpiper

Soule Park (revised)

[Tim Leahy]

I have played them all although I haven't played Ojai or Soule since recent renovations but I don't think the changes would elevate them much.

1. La Purisima
2. Sandpiper
3. Torrey Pines-South
4. Rustic Canyon
5. Angeles National(add)
6. Industry Hills-Ike(add)
7. Barona Creek
8. Pelican Hill
9. PGA West Stadium
10. Many better than Ojai or Soule

I ignored green fees as a criterion since you didn't mention value and nothing on the list matches Rustic in the bang for buck category.
Also ignored walkability since I am a cart guy.
Mostly judged on design, location, challenge and condition when I played them.

[ed_getka]

I've only played 4 on the list.
   Rustic
    Barona
    Torrey
     PGA West

[cary lichtenstein]

Bette and I are playing both Pelician Hills next week in case anyone wants to join us, pls IM me

[David Stamm]

I have played them all although I haven't played Ojai or Soule since recent renovations but I don't think the changes would elevate them much.

1. La Purisima
2. Sandpiper
3. Torrey Pines-South
4. Rustic Canyon
5. Angeles National(add)
6. Industry Hills-Ike(add)
7. Barona Creek
8. Pelican Hill
9. PGA West Stadium
10. Many better than Ojai or Soule

I ignored green fees as a criterion since you didn't mention value and nothing on the list matches Rustic in the bang for buck category.
Also ignored walkability since I am a cart guy.
Mostly judged on design, location, challenge and condition when I played them.

Wow, Torrey and Sandpiper ahead of Rustic? I'm thinking you put too much emphasis on the ocean, Tim. Those 2 can't hold a candle to Rustic in terms of quality of design. MANY better than Ojai or Soule? I'm sure there are a few perhaps. But many? Which ones? Until you play Soule post Hanse, there is no point in arguing, with all due respect.

[Allan Long]

I haven't played either Pelican Hill course, Ojai or Soule Park, but of the rest I would rank:

Rustic Canyon
Barona Creek
PGA West (TPC Stadium)
Torrey Pines (South)
add - La Quinta (Mountain)
Sandpiper
add - Oak Quarry
La Purisima

I haven't played San Dimas Canyon since its redesign by a frequent contributor, but I'm sure it would make the list. 

[Tim Book]

A few of these might be a stretch to be So. Cal ,but my list would be

1) Pelican Hill (South)
2) Lost Canyon (Sky)
3) Primm Valley (Lakes)
4) La Purisma
5) Landmark @ Oak Quarry
6) PGA West (Stadium)
7) Barona Creek
Torrey Pines (South)
9) Pelican Hill (North)
10) Aviara

A few more that I haven't seen enough to include would be Rancho San Marcos, Ojai Valley Inn, Cross Creek or Shadow Ridge

[Robert_Ball]

From what I've heard, Rancho San Marcos would probably make my list but I haven't played it yet so...

1. Rustic
2. Barona
3. La Purisima
4. PGA West (Stadium)
5. Torrey Pines (South)
6. Soule Park
7. Goose Creek
8. Oak Quarry
9. Pelican (North)
10. Marine Memorial

Oldies but goodies: San Clemente, Griffith Park (Wilson), Santa Anita, Quail Ranch, Torrey (North), Brookside #1, Coronado

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

  1)  Rustic
  2)  Barona
  3)  PGA West
  4)  Oak Valley
  5)  La Purisma
  6)  Quail Ranch   ( Conditioning not involved in ranking)
  7)  La Qiunta Hotel Mountain
    Pelican Hill
  9)  Soboba Hot Springs
10)  Oak Quarry

[Scott Weersing]

 Golfweek rates the public access as follows:

4. Rustic Canyon, Moorpark (No. 99 m)
5. Barona Creek, Lakeside (m)
6. PGA West (Stadium), La Quinta (m)
7. The Classic Club, Palm Desert (m)*
12. Torrey Pines (South), San Diego (c)
15. Indian Wells GR (Celebrity), Indian Wells (m)*
16. Pelican Hill GC (Ocean South), Newport Coast (m)
17. La Quinta Hotel (Mountain), La Quinta (m)
18. Trump National, Rancho Palos Verdes (m)

My ranking (for courses not in San Diego and Palm Springs area) would be
1. Rustic Canyon
2. La Purisima
3. Monarch Dunes
4. Olivas Links
5. Goose Creek
6. Oak Valley
7. Soule Park
8. Tijeras Creek
9. Brookside No. 1
10. The Ike-Industry Hills

I miss playing some of these great courses.

[rjsimper]

What is the criteria?

By some accounts, I'd include Harding, Wilson, and Rancho Park on a "list"  but not by others - I am not including Palm Springs courses

1. Rustic
2. Barona
3. Palos Verdes 
4. Ojai
5. Torrey South
6. Oak Quarry
7. La Purisima
8. Goose Creek
9. Rancho Park
10. Cross Creek
11. Lost Canyons Sky
12. Griffith Park Wilson
13. Strawberry Farms
14. Griffith Park Harding
15. Angeles National

Non-scientific and I am sure ive forgotton a ton.  My criteria is assuming good conditions, where would I most want to play.

[Matt_Ward]

Time is short for me now - but I'll quickly say this since I've been coming to the SoCal area for well over 25 years.

La Purisima is vastly under-appreciated by a great many people. I'd say it can rightly lay claim to a top three public position among the various open to the public courses I've played in the region. Play there in any afternoon when the wind picks up and you'll have all you can handle.

Would also throw into the mixture two Palm Springs area courses open to the masses ...

Shadow Ridge in Palm Desert &

Desert Willow / Firethorn also in Palm Desert

For what it's worth -- PGA West / Stadium is a mere redundancy of what Pete has done more successfully elsewhere -- see TPC in Ponte Vedra. The two I mention above are quite a bit more interesting and varied.

I also think Lost Canyons Sky is a bit edgy for the classic school types but I like it even though it can be a bit much for many in terms of its grade and terrain changes.

Hats off to those who mentioned Oak Quarry - gets very little attention on a national scale.

For those who have included the likes of Sand Piper (save for the 10th hole) and Torrey (both N&S) it's likely you are elevating the sheer presence of the nearby ocean more than anything else. Ditto the likes of Pelican Hill -- although TF did better with the original 18 than the 2nd layout that followed.

I'll post more later when time permits ...

[Jason Topp]

I've only played 3 but I think more highly of PGA West than others do.  I think it is a fantastic, creative course that suffers primarily because it is so artificial.  It creates terrific drama at Q-School and would be a very interesting PGA Tour venue.

PGA West Stadium

Rustic Canyon

Torrey Pines South

[rjsimper]

La Purisima is vastly under-appreciated by a great many people. I'd say it can rightly lay claim to a top three public position among the various open to the public courses I've played in the region. Play there in any afternoon when the wind picks up and you'll have all you can handle.

If difficulty was the litmus test for quality, then I'd more likely agree with you on this, but then you'd have to include the Babe on your list as well.

La Purisima is a course that I LOVED the first time I played it, but since then have grown to think less of.  It's still a good course, and better than it's sister course (Hunter Ranch) but I think it benefits most from good conditioning and a remote and beautiful setting. 

I don't remember the hole numbers, but the interior holes of the back nine are borderline awful - I think 13 and maybe 15 (the par 5 along the ridge) are horrific holes, and the tee shots are mostly an awkward bunch with several forced layups.  I think 4, 8, 9, 11 (dogleg right) and 17 are excellent holes. 

I agree with you that it's underappreciated by many, but I do also believe its overappreciated by a fair share of people too.  It's a good, solid layout that I wouldn't send someone visiting from the east coast to unless they happened to be planning a night in Solvang or Buellton.

[Bill_McBride]

Don't pass up a chance to play Santa Barbara Golf Club (formerly SB Muni). 

[Bryan Izatt]

This is a pretty large catchment area to get a list of just 10 or 15 good public access courses.  Too bad we can't get your weather to my home area.  We have more good publics in a lot smaller catchment.  Ranking the courses is tough without an objective scale, but using the Simper method (and slightly tainted by cost):

1.  PGA West Stadium
2.  Rustic
3.  Oak Valley
4.  Oak Quarry
5.  SCPGA (now, East Valley) Champions
6.  Pelican Hill (North)
7.  Barona
8.  Soule Park
9.  SCPGA (now, East Valley) Legends
10. Lost Canyons Sky
11. Ojai
12. Olivas Links

But, all are worthwhile plays.

[Pete Lavallee]

I'de rank them in this order:

Rustic Canyon
Barona Creek
Ojai Valley Inn
La Purisima
PGA West Mountain
PGA West Stadium
Torrey Pines South
Soule Park
Sandpiper

[Kalen Braley]

Hey guys,

This is great stuff. I've been following this thread closely because I've been looking to possibly move to the San Diego/Southern LA area in the next year or two.

If you had to rate these based on value, or best bang for buck...what would the list look like then?  I'm guessing Rustic goes right to the top with its reasonable rates, but how does it stack up after that?

Thanks,

Kalen

[rjsimper]

Hey guys,

This is great stuff. I've been following this thread closely because I've been looking to possibly move to the San Diego/Southern LA area in the next year or two.

If you had to rate these based on value, or best bang for buck...what would the list look like then?  I'm guessing Rustic goes right to the top with its reasonable rates, but how does it stack up after that?

Thanks,

Kalen

If you only want to consider price, the crop of solid but not amazing munis really stands out, but unless you want a 6 hour round and to battle for your tee times, good luck with places like Rancho, Los Verdes, Griffith, Rec Park, El Dorado, Brookside, etc.

[Kalen Braley]

Well bang for the buck in my mind is different than "cheap" courses.

I'd play a $80 nice track over a $40 cow pasture any day...kind of see what I'm getting at?  Its all about what you get for the price...

So I was hoping for a list that ranks by value, not neccessarily by price.

Kalen

[David Stamm]

Interesting lists guys. I feel stupid for forgetting Oak Valley. I really like what Schmidt and Curley has done there. From a price standpoint, Kalen, it's pretty solid and worth considering along with Rustic in terms of value. I guess I should've been more specific with the critieria, but really it's anywhere a golfer can pony up the money to play. Great call, Simps, about Palos Verdes. It would definitely be in my top ten list, although it's pricey for a visitor. BTW, my list was in no particluar order, although it wouldn't be too far off.

[Tim Leahy]

David, what do you know, we do agree on something, I forgot Oak Valley myself. A very good course for the money. I used to drive from Glendale out there, about an hour and a half on the weekend, to avoid the six hour rounds at Brookside. And it's not even near the ocean.

[Allan Long]

How long has Palos Verdes been open to the publc? I always recalled in was strictly private.

[Tim Leahy]

PVGC has been open to the public for certain days during the week only since I was in college in the 80's at least. Only then it was actually affordable(25 to walk in the afternoon), now it's $205 to ride. It is a pretty course though and has some history.

[David Stamm]

David, what do you know, we do agree on something, I forgot Oak Valley myself. A very good course for the money. I used to drive from Glendale out there, about an hour and a half on the weekend, to avoid the six hour rounds at Brookside. And it's not even near the ocean.

Ah, but it is near the Banning Correctional facility. Come to think of it, so is La Purisima. Hmmm...