Courses that pleasantly surprised you?!

[Jay Flemma]

Jay, you will like this...

Royal New Kent was a blow away surprise...

interestingly, Tobacco Road was a mild disappointment...but I blame that on Royal New Kent...

I'm so glad you liked RNK!  What did you think of the first three holes?  Is that one of the toughest starts in golf?  Or at least most intimidating?  What were some of your fave holes there?

[Tim Nugent]

Caladonia. Couldn't believe how much Stranz packed into the little piece of ground.

[rjsimper]

Riviera - I figured it'd be solid, but even after walking it several times, playing it was an eye-opening experience - it's a "wow" course to play and it just works so well

Prairie Dunes - Again, figured it'd be good but (Huckaby, avert your eyes...) it was much more fun than I'd guessed...and more playable.  I was afraid of how penal and narrow it would be but it's far from that.

[Richard Choi]

The Mackenzie Course at University of Michigan.  I just fell in love with it.  My favorite course I played for the first time in 2007.  You know how some places you visit for the first time and they feel like home?  That's how this felt.

I am really happy to hear that as that is the course where I learned to play (during my college year). I really didn't appreciate the course as much as I should have when I was there. Now I wish I can play it at least a couple of times a year.

[Jason Connor]

Caladonia. Couldn't believe how much Stranz packed into the little piece of ground.

I love Caledonia.  I didn't include it because it wasn't a surprise to me given what I think of Strantz.  But I love it.  I want to retire to Pawleys Island!  The Heritage in the morning, Caledonia in the afternoon.  Evenings on my verandah with my dogs. 

[Ash Towe]

Kinloch ( NZ )-From what I had read about his courses and my only experience at Lakelands in Australia, this course exceeded my expecations.  The variety of shots needed and the nature of the bunkering were 2 outstanding features.

MPCC Shore-I new it was good but the par 3's and 5's are outstanding.

Spyglass-the inland holes were better than expected.

[JESII]

...(during my college year)

Glad to hear my college years can average with someone else to meet the standard four or five years...




Jay,

I was skeptical going through #1 but was totally blown away when I got up to my drive on #2 and remain blown away today.

RNK is the one course I would accept as a piece of art that should be left as the architect left it...in part because it is not a feasible golf course to me because the routing destroys any continuity you might seek (actually an important concept to me). Also becuase it was so unique to anything I had seen before...or since, really. TR just didn't measure up in my eyes.

[Michael Powers]

I would also include Riviera as the strategic value of the holes were even better than expected.

Also, in reading the Rees Jones post, Blackstone National in Sutton MA was a pleasant surprise.

[Tim Nugent]

Cypress Point - the picture  jsut don't do it justice.

Lawsonia - Surprised no one messed it up - get untouched throw back course.  I experienced it before the retro-redo era started.

Oakmont - Was ready for all the bunkers but it was the use of the grassy drainage ditches that really got my attentiion,  Also, I couldn't fathom how such big greens could play so small (until I couldn't stop it from going 50' past)

[Mike Bowline]

Lawsonia - Surprised no one messed it up - get untouched throw back course.  I experienced it before the retro-redo era started.

Tim, I concur about Lawsonia - what a throwback and isn't wonderful very few things have been done to it?!?! I read they have finally removed the in-hindsight poorly planted grove of cedars to the right of #8 and #9. Were the cedars still in existence when you played?
By removing the trees to the right of #8, you can now see the green from the tee and the golfer is tempted to drive it right at the green, when in fact, driving away from the green down the left side of the fairway is the preferred line.
And I always thought the grove of trees (planted in straight rows and looking quite out of place on the site) to the right of #9 were poorly done. A drive hit to the right is in enough trouble without the cedars to make it worse.

[Lou_Duran]

How could I have forgotten Long Shadow?  Next to Crystal Downs, I haven't been that impressed by a course for several years.  And what a bargain.

Shivas,

I agree about Bethpage Black.  I don't understand how Wayne Morrison and Matt Ward were disappointed.  Perhaps the greens?  I thought that for the type of long, brawny course that the Black is, the large, not heavily undulating greens provide a near-perfect balance.

I was also pleasantly surprised by Quaker Ridge and its sister course up the road a few miles whose name presently escapes me (one of Dr. Childs's favorites), but is just a smaller version also by Tillie.

Crystal Downs is outright world-class and a huge pleasant surprise.  While I like Prairie Dunes a lot, I consider it to be CD's poorer cousin.  Thin out the natives/gunch, and I think it would be a much better course.  The original nine holes by Perry Maxwell are masterful.   

[Robert Emmons]

Lou...Fenway?

[wsmorrison]

Lou,

There are several things I did not like about Bethpage Black.  The greens certainly were a disappointment.  I think the bunkering was way over the top both in numbers, size and repetitious and contrived shapes.  Where there was interesting topography, it was overwhelmed by the bunkers.  I am used to elevation changes so that aspect of the course was not new and different.  When I'm on Long Island, I have no interest at all to go to Bethpage Black.  I haven't seen any of the other courses (except as seen from BB) so I cannot comment on those.  I thought Bethpage was an above average golf course, at the bottom of a top-100 classic list, nothing more.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Palmetto Golf Club

Prior to my trip to Aiken I literally knew nothing about the golf course expect that I knew if my host was a member there that it must be pretty good.

It was my first experience to Mackenzie bunkers, which I must admit I was never to keene of based on my looking through pictures. Lets just say that has changed.

After driving 3 hours to make the 9am tee time, and quickly changing my shoes in the parking lot , eased into the golf course. We started by playing the loop of 16-17-18. When i got to 18 I knew I was in for a treat. When we came to 1, and I dont know if its all my rounds at Bethpage Red and Black, but I love a downhill opener.

On a previous thread some said that some holes will make you shake your head, however I'm still trying to remember which one.

The opening stretch of holes are fantastic, number 5 is one of the best par 4's in the country---according to Ben Hogan!

7 is one of the best par 3s, death winks at you if you miss right.

11 is an unbelievable par 3 downhill, and 12 is a great par 4 demanding you get the angle right off the tee.

15 is one of the best short par 4s I have played, something very rare it seems these days.

All in all the place is classic. So classic that I begged our host to skip out on Aiken Golf Club for another go at Palmetto. I hope places like Palmetto are still around when I grow up.

[Dean Paolucci]

3.  Ballyneal and Bayonne

Jay,

Of all the newly built courses I have played, I was most impressed with Bayonne!

DEAN

Wasn't that wonderful?  I mean he pulled off the cross over!  The terracing effect was inspired!

I also would be remiss if I didn't mention Knoll Club, those greens swept me off my feet.  Becca may have my keeping, those greens have my heart

A couple others:  Arcadia Bluffs, Crystal Downs, Baltimore CC (East), OAKMONT OAKMONT OAKMONT.

Is that the Charles Banks NJ Knoll?

[Craig_Rokke]

Plainfield
Pine Needles
Rolling Green

I knew all were good, but I liked them even better

[JSlonis]

Although I played it for the first time over 5 years ago, the course that surprised me a lot was Lehigh CC.  Before my enlightened CGA days I really didn't know much about Flynn's course at the time and I remember finishing and at once wanting to head straight to the first tee again.  I loved it.

[Jay Flemma]

Dean, yes it is the Charles Banks Knoll...with an BIG assist from George Bahto.

JES, yes that second hole is really something isn't she?  Don't you worry, thereb is an active preservation campaign that quietly runs behind the scenes to preserve Mike's precious heritage.

Here's a couple more...Hiawatha Landing, Bulls Bay, Conklin, Greystone, Red Tail, Black Rock (Boston).

[Lloyd_Cole]

Several courses from the Jones family.

In theory I'm against them, but I've had fun at -

Atlanta Athletic Club (the other (not the David Toms) course shortly after Rees's reworking)

Valderama

Sotogrande. I could happily move there.

Penha Longa (assigned to Jnr, but Kyle Phillips's work I think)

I even enjoyed Fazio's rework of Seaside at Sea Island, but no more than I enjoyed the existing course, maybe less, but I expected much less.. mind you, the clubhouse (no I won't shut up about it) is a monstrosity. The old one was fine, down home and slightly worm at the edges.

I was disappointed by World Woods Pine Barrens - Eye Candy as La Mucci would say - but I enjoyed Rolling Oaks.

[Jay Flemma]

Hiya, Lloyd!  Nice to see you swinging on my vine!  (That's a Phish reference, not a Jim Rome reference).

[Dean Paolucci]

Dean, yes it is the Charles Banks Knoll...with an BIG assist from George Bahto.

Jay,

I grew up at the Knoll in its heyday (60's and 70's)!  It was wonderful then and George is doing a herculean job with the restoration now.  If he didn't have to deal with the politics, it would be done already!

DEAN

[Mark Arata]

Atlantic City
Essex County NJ
The Knoll NJ
Leatherstocking

I had heard things about ACCC before I played there, but I was really blown away by the course, it is in my top 10, which despite my horrid game, is a pretty decent list.

I grew up maybe 20 miles from both the Knoll and Essex County and had never even heard of them until I got on this website, when I told my NJ friends I was going to the Knoll, they tried to talk me out of it, saying it was in bad shape and not a good course (this was before the renovation), but I went anyway, and I thought it was terriffic. Essex was great as well, very well done, we played it after their renovation, and it was amazing how much different it looked with all the trees cut back and the greens restored.

I am looking forward to seeing the knoll post renovation this summer.

Again, with Leatherstocking, I had never heard of it until I got on the board here. I had passed it a few times when in Cooperstown, but I didnt really know anything about it. Wow, what a fun course, the holes across the street are really fun to play, and the course is just full of quirk, which I like a lot. Great fun to play.

[Jeff Tang]

Wild Horse.  I played this course five years ago knowing nothing about the course and was blown away with the course and its setting, very cool.

Paa-Ko-Ridge.  I knew this was a highly ranked track going in but it exceeded my expectations, very beautiful course, fun to play.

[Lou_Duran]

Robert E,

Yes, Fenway.  Requires great shotmaking from the start.  The only hole I didn't care for was the long par 3 up with the green up against the clubhouse (swimming pool?).

Wayne M,

Your point on the bunkering is well taken.   It is excessive, particularly when you consider that it is a municipal course with some budget constraints on maintenance.  Nevertheless, the bunkering seemed to fit the large scale of the course and I didn't perceive them as overwhelming or otherwise confining.

Lloyd C,

What is it about Sotogrande that made such an impression?  Valderrama was in renovation for the Ryder Cup so I didn't get to play it.  Aren't the two courses very similar, with the newer Valderrama maintained to a much higher standard?  I liked Sotogrande better than Las Brisas, but I had expected more than an upgrade on the much too common RTJ Sr. model.  Some nice ground movement through parts of the course and cool cork trees, but nothing real unique.
  

[Lloyd_Cole]

Lloyd C,

What is it about Sotogrande that made such an impression?  Valderrama was in renovation for the Ryder Cup so I didn't get to play it.  Aren't the two courses very similar, with the newer Valderrama maintained to a much higher standard?  I liked Sotogrande better than Las Brisas, but I had expected more than an upgrade on the much too common RTJ Sr. model.  Some nice ground movement through parts of the course and cool cork trees, but nothing real unique.
  

Lou

Sotogrande was nothing like Valderama. It is wide open for much of the front nine with plenty of room for a hook or slice yet rewarding the correctly placed drive, often with better visibility, or stance. It tightens up when the water comes into play later in the round, but not much. I'd say it was a great resort course where you can go low, but you won't unless you play well. I did play very well by my standards and Lawrence, my old pal, who is about the same as I am as a player really struggled, being just slightly off his game...

Valderama is another kind of fun and many would say it is no fun at all. It is Carnoustie difficult. I won the gross with a 91. I don't mind that, we weren't playing medal anyway except for the 'you won't break 90' side bet. It is very narrow and the bunkers in the air are in play almost every shot. Wrong side of the fairway is not dead, but it is hugely disadvantaged versus the correct play. Distance control is also key as many of the holes dogleg through the cork oaks. My one really terrible drive left me in the oaks with only one recovery angle - straight back to the tee. Worse than 3 off the tee really as I wasn't teeing up the next one. It is very beautiful, greener and more secluded than Sotogrande and they know it. Visitors are not welcomed so much as tolerated, which at almost Eu300, is disgraceful.

It is a great spot for a getaway if you have a few $$ to spare. We went late January - it was deserted and weather was fine. San Roque, where we stayed,  was fun too, and tough. If we returned I'd play Sotogrande every morning and alternate the others in the afternoons.